https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Size_of_Infrastructure&feed=atom&action=historySize of Infrastructure - Revision history2024-03-29T02:28:46ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.34.2https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Size_of_Infrastructure&diff=15614&oldid=prevFarred: a bit more clean up2010-08-05T05:48:10Z<p>a bit more clean up</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 05:48, 5 August 2010</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of engineers is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the constraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment tends to be. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of engineers is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the constraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment tends to be. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build [[First Base|a lunar base]] that can support people. Time and [[Progress in Remotely Operated Equipment|remote controlled equipment]] can establish the infrastructure. This equipment neither eats nor drinks nor breaths, but can be designed to stay on the job many years. Once established, industrial infrastructure can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. It may be fifty years before there are profits, not quite so long before people arrive. With local resources supporting them, people's hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build [[First Base|a lunar base]] that can support people. Time and [[Progress in Remotely Operated Equipment|remote controlled equipment]] can establish the infrastructure. This equipment neither eats nor drinks nor breaths, but can be designed to stay on the job many years. Once established, industrial infrastructure can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. It may be fifty years before there are profits, not quite so long before people arrive. With local resources supporting them, people's hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Ares V was planned to put 350,000 pounds into low Earth orbit as compared to 19,000 pounds for the Delta IV heavy. A modest modification to make the Delta IV heavy more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19,000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19,000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station might have these four sections: A) A nonrotating section connected to a nonrotating axel; B) A constantly rotating portion housing <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">motors, </del>storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase its moment of inertia; C) A spin up/spin down portion to rotate on the same axel <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">which </del>would hold rockets that fuel up or unload fuel; D) A counter rotating section would balance the angular momentum of the spin up/spin down section without using rocket thrusters. The nonrotating section would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up/spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. Sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">an </del>electric motors. There would no solid surface contact between the two. Magnetic bearings do not need lubricants. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Ares V was planned to put 350,000 pounds into low Earth orbit as compared to 19,000 pounds for the Delta IV heavy. A modest modification to make the Delta IV heavy more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19,000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19,000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station might have these four sections: A) A nonrotating section connected to a nonrotating axel; B) A constantly rotating portion housing storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase its moment of inertia; C) A spin up/spin down portion to rotate on the same axel<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">. It </ins>would hold rockets that fuel up or unload fuel; D) A counter rotating section would balance the angular momentum of the spin up/spin down section without using rocket thrusters. The nonrotating section would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up/spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. Sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and electric motors. There would no solid surface contact between the two<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">. Bearings, motors, and power transfer devices would be mounted part on the nonrotating axel and part on the rotating section</ins>. Magnetic bearings do not need lubricants. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings come from not building the Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for the Ares V nor any other excessively large and expensive vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require such big rockets. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings come from not building the Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for the Ares V nor any other excessively large and expensive vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require such big rockets. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td></tr>
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</table>Farredhttps://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Size_of_Infrastructure&diff=15613&oldid=prevFarred: clean up2010-08-05T05:11:52Z<p>clean up</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 05:11, 5 August 2010</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers == </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers == </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*There are two fictional visions of <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">reproducing </del>industrial infrastructure that are near opposite ends in scale. In a story "The Machine Stops" E.M. Forster in 1909 depicted all people on Earth and all of their machines interconnected as one self sustaining growing unit. Eric Drexler and others suggested that a desk top scale nano-assembler (once one was perfected) could make other nano-assemblers<ref> Chemical & Engineering News, 1 December 2003. vol 81 #48. CENEAR 81 48 pp.37-42<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">. </del> <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/8148/8148counterpoint.html </del></ref> <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">from the appropriate raw materials and power; and thus be </del>a <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">full reproducing </del>industrial infrastructure <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">to </del>fit <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">in </del>a moving van. God has already got one up on Drexler with the carrot seed. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*There are two fictional visions of <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">self-replicating </ins>industrial infrastructure that are near opposite ends in scale. In a story "The Machine Stops<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">,</ins>" E.M. Forster in 1909 depicted all people on Earth and all of their machines interconnected as one self sustaining growing unit. Eric Drexler and others suggested that a desk top scale nano-assembler (once one was perfected) could make other nano-assemblers<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">.</ins><ref> <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">[http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/8148/8148counterpoint.html </ins>Chemical & Engineering News, 1 December 2003. vol 81 #48. CENEAR 81 48 pp.37-42<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">] </ins> </ref> <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline"> In this way </ins>a <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">self replicating </ins>industrial infrastructure<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">, with mining, chemical processing and manufacturing could </ins>fit <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">into </ins>a moving van<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">. Each module would fit on a desk top and be ready to work with the others. If electrical power water and feed stock are provided, one module could make all the others</ins>. God has already got one up on Drexler with the carrot seed. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Opponents of putting industrial infrastructure on Luna tend <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">to </del>Forster's vision. They seem to think that if an industrial infrastructure is not as big as the Earth including as many people as live today, it cannot sustain itself and produce product<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">, and since </del>it is impossible to ship such to Luna, people should not try. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Opponents of putting industrial infrastructure on Luna tend <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">toward </ins>Forster's vision. They seem to think that if an industrial infrastructure is not as big as the Earth including as many people as live today, it cannot sustain itself and produce product<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">. Since </ins>it is impossible to ship such <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">a thing </ins>to Luna, <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">those against lunar colonies suggest </ins>people should not try. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">, with these </del>launches <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">including (</del>perhaps a half dozen<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">) </del>astronauts <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">who will </del>be living in locally built housing and running the show <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">the same week that three of them arrive on </del>the first <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Ares V trip</del>. <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">They </del>could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">to </del>support all the needs of astronauts from the start, <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">or they </del>could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">any engineer </del>is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the constraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">will </del>be.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">. These </ins>launches <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">would include </ins>perhaps a half dozen astronauts<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">. Three of them would arrive on the first Ares V. They would </ins>be living in locally built housing and running the show the first <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">day</ins>. <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Supporters of this vision </ins>could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">. The industrial infrastructure would be set up in hours. It would </ins>support all the needs of astronauts from the start<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">. Alternatively</ins>, <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">enthusiasts </ins>could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">as many </ins>years <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">as it takes for astronauts to set up industry</ins>. <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">A few hundred astronauts in space suits with picks, shovels and other basic tools could dig out mines and building foundations. They could hand lay sintered bricks and weave reinforcing glass cables through holes in the brick. </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Actually neither </del>Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build [[First Base|a lunar base]] that can support people. Time and [[Progress in Remotely Operated Equipment|remote controlled equipment]] <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">that </del>neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">establish </del>the infrastructure <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">that </del>can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">That is perhaps </del>fifty years before there are <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">profitable exports</del>, not quite so long before <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">the considerable benefits of </del>hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">*</ins>Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">engineers </ins>is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the constraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">tends to </ins>be. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Delta IV heavy can </del>put <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">19000 </del>pounds into low Earth orbit<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">.(</del>as compared to <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">a planned 350</del>,000 pounds for the <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Ares V) </del> A modest modification to make the <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">rocket </del>more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">19000 </del>pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">19000 </del>pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">would </del>have a constantly rotating portion housing motors, storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">the </del>moment of inertia <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a </del>spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">axis. </del> A counter rotating section would <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">allow </del>the section <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">intended to be nonrotating to remain so </del>without using rocket thrusters. The nonrotating section would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">The two sections </del>of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">motor</del>. There would no solid surface contact between the two <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">and no </del>need <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">for </del>lubricants. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Neither </ins>Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build [[First Base|a lunar base]] that can support people. Time and [[Progress in Remotely Operated Equipment|remote controlled equipment]] <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">can establish the infrastructure. This equipment </ins>neither eats nor drinks nor breaths<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">, but </ins>can <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">be designed to stay on </ins>the <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">job many years. Once established, industrial </ins>infrastructure can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">It may be </ins>fifty years before there are <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">profits</ins>, not quite so long before <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">people arrive. With local resources supporting them, people's </ins>hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">comes </del>from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V nor any other excessively large and expensive vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Ares V was planned to </ins>put <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">350,000 </ins>pounds into low Earth orbit as compared to <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">19</ins>,000 pounds for the <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Delta IV heavy. </ins> A modest modification to make the <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Delta IV heavy </ins>more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">19,000 </ins>pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">19,000 </ins>pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">might </ins>have <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">these four sections: A) A nonrotating section connected to </ins>a <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">nonrotating axel; B) A </ins>constantly rotating portion housing motors, storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">its </ins>moment of inertia<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">; C) A </ins>spin up<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">/</ins>spin down portion to rotate on the same <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">axel which would hold rockets that fuel up or unload fuel; D) </ins> A counter rotating section would <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">balance the angular momentum of </ins>the <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">spin up/spin down </ins>section without using rocket thrusters. The nonrotating section would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">/</ins>spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Sections </ins>of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">motors</ins>. There would no solid surface contact between the two<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">. Magnetic bearings do not </ins>need lubricants. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">come </ins>from not building <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">the </ins>Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">the </ins>Ares V nor any other excessively large and expensive vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">such </ins>big rockets. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== A Lack of Data == </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== A Lack of Data == </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*There is good reason to believe that the Ares V was just too big and expensive for a practical space program, but how big should a rocket be to fit well with NASA's programs? Some might think that a rocket similar to the Ariane V ES with a 46,000 pound to LEO capability would be sufficient. Others might consider that the Falcon_9 Heavy with a planned <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">71000 </del>pound to LEO capability would be better. If people oppose space colonization on principal, <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">then </del>anything larger than needed for communications and military satellites is <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">considered </del>a waste. Numerical matching of requirements and the ways of meeting those requirements is needed to get a good general idea. All in one launch missions should be compared with multiple launch with assembly on orbit missions <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">by </del>the service to the <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">over all </del>goal and <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">by </del>cost. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*There is good reason to believe that the Ares V was just too big and expensive for a practical space program, but how big should a rocket be to fit well with NASA's programs? Some might think that a rocket similar to the Ariane V ES with a 46,000 pound to LEO capability would be sufficient. Others might consider that the Falcon_9 Heavy with a planned <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">71,000 </ins>pound to LEO capability would be better. If people oppose space colonization on principal, <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">they would say </ins>anything larger than needed for communications and military satellites is a waste. Numerical matching of requirements and the ways of meeting those requirements is needed to get a good general idea. All in one launch missions should be compared with multiple launch with assembly on orbit missions <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">when these are alternatives. We should compare </ins>the service to the <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">overall </ins>goal and <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">the </ins>cost. <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline"> Such comparisons usually must contain a considerable measure of executive judgment in the form of ground rules for comparison. </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How big does an industrial base on Luna need to be to be mostly self-replicating? The [[Advanced Automation for Space Missions]] starts to address this question and others.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How big does an industrial base on Luna need to be to be mostly self-replicating? The [[Advanced Automation for Space Missions]] starts to address this question and others. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Reference===</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Reference===</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><references/> </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><references/> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del class="diffchange diffchange-inline"> </del>[[category:Infrastructures]]</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[category:Infrastructures]]</div></td></tr>
</table>Farredhttps://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Size_of_Infrastructure&diff=15599&oldid=prevFarred: addition2010-07-31T16:53:31Z<p>addition</p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:53, 31 July 2010</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l6" >Line 6:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 6:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit.(as compared to a planned 350,000 pounds for the Ares V) A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors, storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. A counter rotating section would allow the section intended to be nonrotating to remain so without using rocket thrusters. The nonrotating section would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit.(as compared to a planned 350,000 pounds for the Ares V) A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors, storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. A counter rotating section would allow the section intended to be nonrotating to remain so without using rocket thrusters. The nonrotating section would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V nor any other excessively large and expensive vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V nor any other excessively large and expensive vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline"> </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">== A Lack of Data == </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">*There is good reason to believe that the Ares V was just too big and expensive for a practical space program, but how big should a rocket be to fit well with NASA's programs? Some might think that a rocket similar to the Ariane V ES with a 46,000 pound to LEO capability would be sufficient. Others might consider that the Falcon_9 Heavy with a planned 71000 pound to LEO capability would be better. If people oppose space colonization on principal, then anything larger than needed for communications and military satellites is considered a waste. Numerical matching of requirements and the ways of meeting those requirements is needed to get a good general idea. All in one launch missions should be compared with multiple launch with assembly on orbit missions by the service to the over all goal and by cost. </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">*How big does an industrial base on Luna need to be to be mostly self-replicating? The [[Advanced Automation for Space Missions]] starts to address this question and others.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Reference===</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Reference===</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><references/> </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><references/> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> [[category:Infrastructures]]</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> [[category:Infrastructures]]</div></td></tr>
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</table>Farredhttps://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Size_of_Infrastructure&diff=15598&oldid=prevFarred: rewikifying reference, adding links, addition and clarification2010-07-31T15:54:52Z<p>rewikifying reference, adding links, addition and clarification</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 15:54, 31 July 2010</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers == </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers == </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*There are two fictional visions of reproducing industrial infrastructure that are near opposite ends in scale. In a story "The Machine Stops" E.M. Forster in 1909 depicted all people on Earth and all of their machines interconnected as one self sustaining growing unit. Eric Drexler and others suggested that a desk top scale nano-assembler (once one was perfected) could make other nano-assemblers <<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">sup</del>><del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">[</del>1<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">]</del></<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">sup</del>> from the appropriate raw materials and power; and thus be a full reproducing industrial infrastructure to fit in a moving van. God has already got one up on Drexler with the carrot seed. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*There are two fictional visions of reproducing industrial infrastructure that are near opposite ends in scale. In a story "The Machine Stops" E.M. Forster in 1909 depicted all people on Earth and all of their machines interconnected as one self sustaining growing unit. Eric Drexler and others suggested that a desk top scale nano-assembler (once one was perfected) could make other nano-assemblers<<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">ref</ins>> <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Chemical & Engineering News, </ins>1 <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">December 2003. vol 81 #48. CENEAR 81 48 pp.37-42. http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/8148/8148counterpoint.html </ins></<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">ref</ins>> from the appropriate raw materials and power; and thus be a full reproducing industrial infrastructure to fit in a moving van. God has already got one up on Drexler with the carrot seed. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Opponents of putting industrial infrastructure on Luna tend to Forster's vision. They seem to think that if an industrial infrastructure is not as big as the Earth including as many people as live today, it cannot sustain itself and produce product, and since it is impossible to ship such to Luna, people should not try. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Opponents of putting industrial infrastructure on Luna tend to Forster's vision. They seem to think that if an industrial infrastructure is not as big as the Earth including as many people as live today, it cannot sustain itself and produce product, and since it is impossible to ship such to Luna, people should not try. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the constraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the constraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build a lunar base that can support people. Time and remote controlled equipment that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">[[First Base|</ins>a lunar base<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">]] </ins>that can support people. Time and <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">[[Progress in Remotely Operated Equipment|</ins>remote controlled equipment<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">]] </ins>that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit. A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors, storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. A counter rotating section would allow the section intended to be nonrotating to remain so without using rocket thrusters. The nonrotating section would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit.<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">(as compared to a planned 350,000 pounds for the Ares V) </ins> A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors, storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. A counter rotating section would allow the section intended to be nonrotating to remain so without using rocket thrusters. The nonrotating section would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">or </del>any other expensive <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">heavy lift </del>vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">nor </ins>any other <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">excessively large and </ins>expensive vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">References</del>===</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Reference</ins>===</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">:1. Chemical & Engineering News, 1 December 2003. vol 81 #48. CENEAR 81 48 pp.37-42. http:</del>/<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">/pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/8148/8148counterpoint.html </del></div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline"><references</ins>/<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">> </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> [[category:Infrastructures]]</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> [[category:Infrastructures]]</div></td></tr>
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</table>Farredhttps://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Size_of_Infrastructure&diff=15453&oldid=prevFarred: /* From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers */2010-02-22T14:13:20Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers</span></span></p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface">
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:13, 22 February 2010</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the constraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the constraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build a lunar base that can support people. Time and remote controlled equipment that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build a lunar base that can support people. Time and remote controlled equipment that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit. A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors, storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. A counter rotating section would allow the section intended to be nonrotating to remain so without using rocket thrusters. The nonrotating <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">sectin </del>would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit. A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors, storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. A counter rotating section would allow the section intended to be nonrotating to remain so without using rocket thrusters. The nonrotating <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">section </ins>would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V or any other expensive heavy lift vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V or any other expensive heavy lift vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td></tr>
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</table>Farredhttps://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Size_of_Infrastructure&diff=15452&oldid=prevFarred: clarification2010-02-22T14:09:19Z<p>clarification</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:09, 22 February 2010</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the constraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the constraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build a lunar base that can support people. Time and remote controlled equipment that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build a lunar base that can support people. Time and remote controlled equipment that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit. A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors, storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. A counter rotating section would allow the section intended to be nonrotating to remain so without using rocket thrusters. <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">It </del>would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit. A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors, storage tanks, solar cells, communications equipment and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. A counter rotating section would allow the section intended to be nonrotating to remain so without using rocket thrusters. <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">The nonrotating sectin </ins>would have solar cells and communications equipment. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V or any other expensive heavy lift vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V or any other expensive heavy lift vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td></tr>
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</table>Farredhttps://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Size_of_Infrastructure&diff=15451&oldid=prevFarred: /* From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers */2010-02-22T14:05:15Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers</span></span></p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
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<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:05, 22 February 2010</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1" >Line 1:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers == </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers == </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*There are two fictional visions of reproducing industrial infrastructure that are near opposite ends in scale. In a story "The Machine Stops" E.M. Forster in 1909 depicted all people on Earth and all of their machines interconnected as one self sustaining growing unit. Eric Drexler and others suggested that a desk top scale nano-assembler (once one was perfected) could make other nano-assemblers <sup>[1]</sup> from the appropriate raw materials and power; and thus be a full reproducing industrial infrastructure to fit in a moving van. God has already got one up on Drexler with the carrot seed. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*There are two fictional visions of reproducing industrial infrastructure that are near opposite ends in scale. In a story "The Machine Stops" E.M. Forster in 1909 depicted all people on Earth and all of their machines interconnected as one self sustaining growing unit. Eric Drexler and others suggested that a desk top scale nano-assembler (once one was perfected) could make other nano-assemblers <sup>[1]</sup> from the appropriate raw materials and power; and thus be a full reproducing industrial infrastructure to fit in a moving van. God has already got one up on Drexler with the carrot seed. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Opponents of putting industrial infrastructure on Luna tend to Forster's vision. They seem to think that if an industrial infrastructure is not as big as the Earth including as many people as live today, it <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">can not </del>sustain itself and produce product, and since it is impossible to ship such to Luna, people should not try. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Opponents of putting industrial infrastructure on Luna tend to Forster's vision. They seem to think that if an industrial infrastructure is not as big as the Earth including as many people as live today, it <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">cannot </ins>sustain itself and produce product, and since it is impossible to ship such to Luna, people should not try. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">contraints </del>in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">constraints </ins>in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build a lunar base that can support people. Time and remote controlled equipment that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build a lunar base that can support people. Time and remote controlled equipment that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit. A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">and </del>solar cells communications and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. It would have solar cells communications <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">and a refueling and assembly platform</del>. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit. A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">, storage tanks, </ins>solar cells<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">, </ins>communications <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">equipment </ins>and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">. A counter rotating section would allow the section intended to be nonrotating to remain so without using rocket thrusters</ins>. It would have solar cells <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">and </ins>communications <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">equipment</ins>. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V or any other expensive heavy lift vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V or any other expensive heavy lift vehicle. More savings come from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td></tr>
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</table>Farredhttps://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Size_of_Infrastructure&diff=15450&oldid=prevFarred: making references available to users not logged in2010-02-22T13:12:18Z<p>making references available to users not logged in</p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
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<col class="diff-content" />
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 13:12, 22 February 2010</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1" >Line 1:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers == </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== From "The Machine Stops" to Nano-assemblers == </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*There are two fictional visions of reproducing industrial infrastructure that are near opposite ends in scale. In a story "The Machine Stops" E.M. Forster in 1909 depicted all people on Earth and all of their machines interconnected as one self sustaining growing unit. Eric Drexler and others suggested that a desk top scale nano-assembler (once one was perfected) could make other nano-assemblers <<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">ref</del>> <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Chemical & Engineering News, </del>1 <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">December 2003. vol 81 #48. CENEAR 81 48 pp.37-42. http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/8148/8148counterpoint.html </del></<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">ref</del>> from the appropriate raw materials and power; and thus be a full reproducing industrial infrastructure to fit in a moving van. God has already got one up on Drexler with the carrot seed. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*There are two fictional visions of reproducing industrial infrastructure that are near opposite ends in scale. In a story "The Machine Stops" E.M. Forster in 1909 depicted all people on Earth and all of their machines interconnected as one self sustaining growing unit. Eric Drexler and others suggested that a desk top scale nano-assembler (once one was perfected) could make other nano-assemblers <<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">sup</ins>><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">[</ins>1<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">]</ins></<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">sup</ins>> from the appropriate raw materials and power; and thus be a full reproducing industrial infrastructure to fit in a moving van. God has already got one up on Drexler with the carrot seed. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Opponents of putting industrial infrastructure on Luna tend to Forster's vision. They seem to think that if an industrial infrastructure is not as big as the Earth including as many people as live today, it can not sustain itself and produce product, and since it is impossible to ship such to Luna, people should not try. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Opponents of putting industrial infrastructure on Luna tend to Forster's vision. They seem to think that if an industrial infrastructure is not as big as the Earth including as many people as live today, it can not sustain itself and produce product, and since it is impossible to ship such to Luna, people should not try. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the contraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the contraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l8" >Line 8:</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===References===</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===References===</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del class="diffchange diffchange-inline"><references</del>/<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">></del></div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">:1. Chemical & Engineering News, 1 December 2003. vol 81 #48. CENEAR 81 48 pp.37-42. http:</ins>/<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">/pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/8148/8148counterpoint.html </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> [[category:Infrastructures]]</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> [[category:Infrastructures]]</div></td></tr>
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</table>Farredhttps://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Size_of_Infrastructure&diff=13669&oldid=prevFarred at 13:54, 22 October 20082008-10-22T13:54:46Z<p></p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface">
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 13:54, 22 October 2008</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l5" >Line 5:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 5:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build a lunar base that can support people. Time and remote controlled equipment that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build a lunar base that can support people. Time and remote controlled equipment that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit. A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors and solar cells communications and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. It would have solar cells communications and a refueling and assembly platform. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit. A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors and solar cells communications and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. It would have solar cells communications and a refueling and assembly platform. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. Docking of two spacecraft was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V or any other expensive heavy lift vehicle. More savings <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">comes </del>from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V or any other expensive heavy lift vehicle. More savings <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">come </ins>from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===References===</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===References===</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><references/></div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><references/></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> [[category:Infrastructures]]</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> [[category:Infrastructures]]</div></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key lunarpedia_prod-mw_:diff::1.12:old-13668:rev-13669 -->
</table>Farredhttps://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Size_of_Infrastructure&diff=13668&oldid=prevFarred at 13:51, 22 October 20082008-10-22T13:51:21Z<p></p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 13:51, 22 October 2008</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l4" >Line 4:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 4:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the contraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Some proponents of industrial infrastructure on Luna seem to think that fully self maintaining and self reproducing industrial equipment could be sent to Luna with (perhaps) a half dozen Ares V launches, with these launches including (perhaps a half dozen) astronauts who will be living in locally built housing and running the show the same week that three of them arrive on the first Ares V trip. They could be imagining an industrial base something like Drexler's table top nano-factories to support all the needs of astronauts from the start, or they could imagine that congress will cheerfully keep sending tang and freeze dried filet mignon to Luna for years. Actually the way to kill a government funded space program is to insist that the program simply must have resources that are more expensive than congress is willing to provide. The job of any engineer is to solve a problem while working within certain constraints. The tighter the contraints in which something can be accomplished, the more cost effective and/or profitable that accomplishment will be.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build a lunar base that can support people. Time and remote controlled equipment that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Actually neither Drexler's nano-factories nor Ares V launchers are necessary to build a lunar base that can support people. Time and remote controlled equipment that neither eats nor drinks nor breaths can establish the infrastructure that can support people and allow the export of products that will pay for imports. That is perhaps fifty years before there are profitable exports, not quite so long before the considerable benefits of hands on work can aid the lunar enterprise. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit. A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors and solar cells communications and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. It would have solar cells communications and a refueling and assembly platform. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">This is a capability that </del>was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*All necessary remotely operated devices can be sent to Luna on moderate size rockets. The Delta IV heavy can put 19000 pounds into low Earth orbit. A modest modification to make the rocket more appropriate for the low Earth orbit mission than the Geostationary orbit mission could improve on that. A useful unmanned space station that would provide a platform for vehicle assembly and refueling would allow 19000 pound payloads to be assembled with a fully fueled vehicle that would put 19000 pounds on Luna. A useful unmanned space station would have a constantly rotating portion housing motors and solar cells communications and if necessary some structure and ballast that would increase the moment of inertia for the constantly spinning portion. There would be a spin up spin down portion to rotate on the same axis. It would have solar cells communications and a refueling and assembly platform. Cargoes of fuel and rockets to be refueled or assembled would dock with the spin up spin down portion while it is not rotating. <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Docking of two spacecraft </ins>was demonstrated early in the space program. The center of mass of the loaded platform would be adjusted to the common spin axis of the station. The platform would be spun up to a mere 20 centimeters per second squared radial acceleration and fuel would be transferred with no problem. The two sections of the refueling station would be connected by magnetic bearings and an electric motor. There would no solid surface contact between the two and no need for lubricants. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V or any other expensive heavy lift vehicle. More savings comes from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*Savings comes from not building Ares V nor maintaining launching facilities for Ares V or any other expensive heavy lift vehicle. More savings comes from a higher frequency of launch of medium lift rockets resulting (at least potentially) in lower unit cost. NASA does not do things this way because of an institutional bias toward using big rockets. There is some argument for using big rockets in all at once launches for manned Mars missions, but the expense should all be counted toward the manned Mars missions. A program of [[Bootstrapping Industry]] on Luna does not require big rockets. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*This does not need to result in a smaller NASA. Spending the same money on cheaper per each missions results in more missions. </div></td></tr>
</table>Farred