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		<id>https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_Unmanned_Sites&amp;diff=114407</id>
		<title>Talk:List of Unmanned Sites</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_Unmanned_Sites&amp;diff=114407"/>
		<updated>2015-12-17T19:31:13Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;31.184.238.249: /* boots chemist viagra retail price */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;Are these Mean Earth landing coordinates?  Can we make room for Mare Orientale coordinates as well, or is it best to keep in one or the other (and prior consensus has been to use Mare Orientale coordinates)?  We should probably have an article or two on coordinate systems...  -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 05:01, 15 January 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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------------&lt;br /&gt;
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Coordinates are given per the IAU standard.  I do not recommend using different coordinate systems.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]] 06:34, 15 January 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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good link&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar_resources/imagery.shtml&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]] 06:36, 15 January 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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This is the generally accepted standard which should be used:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
IAU Mean Earth Polar Axis coordinate system, from the transformed Defense Mapping&lt;br /&gt;
Agency 603 (DMA/603) lunar cartographic control network as described in Davies et al., J. Geophys. Res., v. 92, pp. 14177-14184, 1987.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]] 06:56, 15 January 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The person who could best counterargue with you is Bryce Walden, who was one of the authors of a paper on what&#039;s wrong with the Mean Earth coordinate system, what it will take to replace it, and what is possibly the best system with which to replace it.  I&#039;d scrounge up the bookmark, but right now my files are spread across two machines, three partitions, and not a few things are not accounted for and may have been accidentally left behind when my previous notebook drive was wiped. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 07:44, 15 January 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:found my bookmarks, finally: http://www.oregonl5.org/l5sr02e.html -- Mare Orientale Prime Meridian article -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 08:21, 15 January 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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James, I am well aware of the ideas being promoted by Bryce and co in Oregon.  I have discussed his approach with a member of the relevant IAU committee, who has advised me that the idea has no traction and will not get anywhere.    I recommend we do not spend any further time on it.  the IAU standard is the de-facto standard.  It might have problems, but it is the best we have, and is not likely to ever be changed.  If Lunarpedia ignores the IAU standard it will create confusion and damage our credibility in the wider scientific community.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]] 11:51, 15 January 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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		<author><name>31.184.238.249</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Driving_on_the_Moon&amp;diff=114405</id>
		<title>Talk:Driving on the Moon</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Driving_on_the_Moon&amp;diff=114405"/>
		<updated>2015-12-17T19:05:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;31.184.238.249: /* viagra classification */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;I didn&#039;t write the information on this page. I just moved this from &amp;quot;Roads&amp;quot; Article.&lt;br /&gt;
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The information on this page is not objective at all. Perhaps this just should be re-written.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jotagiraldez]] 22:44, 6 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:On the main page under the heading of &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;About Lunarpedia&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; is the statement: &amp;quot;We&#039;re not concerned about encyclopedic neutrality&amp;quot;.  That statement should be taken with a grain of salt.  &lt;br /&gt;
:I wrote the article section about a kind of electrical launch of cargo with the hope of perking up some people&#039;s interest.  Now it is an article.  It may refer to a rather far out means of transportation, but it seems as though it ought to be physically possible.  I do not know how I should change it to make it better.  Do you have specific suggestions?  --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 03:39, 7 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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		<author><name>31.184.238.249</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Symbiotes&amp;diff=114288</id>
		<title>Talk:Symbiotes</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Symbiotes&amp;diff=114288"/>
		<updated>2015-12-17T10:20:16Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;31.184.238.249: /* viagra competitors */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;We need to rethink our design of lunar settlements in view of new information and new concepts.  This is a start of that design effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As with all design efforts we must start at the top.  Our relationship to our machines is at the very top of any design involving man in space.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I look forward to your input.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks,&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 17:47, 14 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
==Copyright questions about images in article== &lt;br /&gt;
There are some image files that seem to me to be neither public domain nor the property of Jriley.  There is &amp;quot;Steve Jobs &amp;amp; iPhone&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Terminator, Defleshed&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;HAL200101.jpg&amp;quot;.  There is no clear attestation of public domain or original work for a number of other images.  What I propose to do is leave the black swan graph and robonaut images and delete the rest.  If there is good reason to believe that Jriley has the right to publish these images, now is the time to make this clear.  There has been much sentiment for new restrictive laws that could put Wikis out of action for even suspected copyright violations.  I do not want Lunarpedia to be an example of the copyright abuse that backers of such laws can point to and say: &amp;quot;See, that is the flagrant abuse we are trying to stop.&amp;quot;  [[User:Farred|Farred]] 23:10, 18 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I have followed a suggestion by Mike and Rose for the three most likely to be problematic images (as a step short of deletion in case a fair use or other solution can be worked out in the next few days), but most of the other images, depending on their sources, are likely to be equally as problematic.  We really need to know where they came from and what terms they&#039;re available under. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 05:43, 20 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I&#039;ve found one of the generic images.  It&#039;s public domain on Wikipedia.  if Tom doesn&#039;t reappear in time to clarify and we can&#039;t find them the other generic images should be easy enough to replace with ones we can be confident about. Obviously, the three others are going to be a little bit harder to replace... -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 08:55, 20 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The images undocumented images are all generic or taken from ad materials.  They are not critical to the argument of the entry so I simply removed them. --[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 23:54, 20 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::You also removed the one I found documentation for.  Most of the other images could be easily replaced by images that we can find the licencing terms for, preferably public domain.  It might be useful to hold onto the problem images just long enough to upload their replacements.  What I really want to do, though, is have replacements for the other aspects of the article previously illustrated by images that suits and lawyers could be expected to go after us for having up -- they were also useful points to have visually represented. ...Although if they were promotional images, there might be terms under which they&#039;re available that we could adhere to.  I believe we need more graphics in most of our articles.  Humans are inherently visually oriented, and the usefulness of Lunarpedia is enhanced by making use of this.  -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 22:15, 22 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Topic==&lt;br /&gt;
The symbiotic relationship that we have with plants and machines will play an important role in the future of moon&#039;s history. The article needs refinement... the black swans are out of the topic. This articles is organized like a college handout. --[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jose Giraldez]] 22:48, 19 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Some people might find it useful to think of the relationship between people and our machines as symbiotic.  We can leave it as an article on Lunarpedia but technically machines cannot be symbiotes because they are not alive.  Attempting legal incorporation of a machine will not change that.  Legal corporations are not alive.  Any action a corporation takes must be taken by some human agent of the corporation acting on behalf of the corporation.  A corporation is a legal organization of people that is documented by some state of the United States or a foreign state.  It is not a living thing and it cannot be a symbiote.  A machine can be the property of a corporation, but it cannot be a corporation.  [[User:Farred|Farred]] 00:03, 20 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Although a human would program the machine and the machine would act following that program, unintended consequences may happen, such as stock trading programs crashing the market by following instructions to  minimize losses, followed by humans capitalizing on the crash by buying cheap.  What happens when machines start programming each other? [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 01:00, 20 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::A recent Wired cover article had a red-colored toy robot on its side.  It firmly announced that Artificial Intelligence is here -- and that it&#039;s nothing at all like we expected.  We seem to be building unconsciousnesses of enormous, if typically specialized capabilities.  It&#039;s very possible that some combination of these plus some additional, to-be developed &#039;&#039;modules&#039;&#039; -- to borrow a term from Evolutionary Psychology -- will finally provide us with the Singularity level conscious AI we&#039;ve been awaiting for more than half a century. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 09:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Maybe Black Swans needs to be its own article?  Given the presence of discussion questions, I assume the whole article was intended as a starter/thought piece.  Perhaps symbiosis is the wrong word; do we have other candidates? [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 01:00, 20 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: This Symboliotes entry was a reorganization of a paper written for another purpose and would work better here as several linked entries.  It is in three distinct parts.  The first part is on &amp;quot;why&amp;quot; and is somewhat out of place by the normal logic of a technical article.  It appears first first because reading the technical discussion first tends reduce the number of readers who ever read past it into the why section.  People simply like &amp;quot;why&amp;quot; better than &amp;quot;what&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: The black swans make a somewhat out of context appearance because the &amp;quot;why&amp;quot; of the whole article is to force out-of-box thinking.  Yes, we really do need a full article on black swans as we are doing our up-most to generate some.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: The third section, legal robot people, is an argument ad adsurbum.  Making corporations people logically leads to making robots people. If you do not accept the second idea, then you should not accept the first idea.  Again this is a rather desperate attempt to get a raise out of somebody at a time when the Moon is a dead subject.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: I do stand by the major concept however.  To reinvigorate human space exploration for the 21st century, we must redesign everything.  The place to start is &#039;&#039;&#039;not&#039;&#039;&#039; at the bottom with rockets and spacesuits but at the top with a complete re-conception of who human beings are and how we relate to our machines.  Odd as it may seem, a spaceship that loves you is a good place to start.  --[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 00:20, 21 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::But a spaceship that hates  you will leak air at all the wrong times.... [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 03:13, 21 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::We are getting out of focus here... Ideas: 1) We already have a symbiotic relationship with moneras, fungis, animals and plants... When discussing lunar medicine (even space station medicine) we know the imperative of keeping the proper amounts of microorganisms inside our body. Human-lunar and space settlements are indeed plants/animals/bacteria-lunar-settlements as well... At least in the near future is imperative to &amp;quot;settle&amp;quot; plants on the moon for a correct ISRU. 2)The discussion of re-conceptions of lunar settlements/architectures are another chapter and good soil for dialectic in new-articles. &#039;&#039;&#039;3) The article symbiotes has to be organized in a way that explain what symbiosis is and its relationship with the luna even before start to explain the ideas exposed by user Jriley about the human-machine symbiosis.&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I find the topic interesting for dialectic. However, the article could be organized diferently. Right now it looks like a handout of a sociology... something... --[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jose Giraldez]] 21:07, 25 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
:::::I think it would be reasonable to cover the literal meaning of symbiotes first with the relation to a lunar settlement and second cover the metaphorical meaning with relation to machines.  Did you want to add to the article or should I?  I might not get to it for a while and I am no biologist.  [[User:Farred|Farred]] 00:19, 28 January 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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