https://lunarpedia.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Jarogers2001&feedformat=atomLunarpedia - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T16:51:28ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.34.2https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User:Jarogers2001&diff=25330User:Jarogers20012014-02-09T07:31:54Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
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<div>[[Image:JamesR.JPG|right|thumb|James Rogers]]<br />
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{| style="align: right; float: right; border: 0px" cellspacing = 0<br />
|{{User Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Marsp Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Exd Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Sf Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Member}}<br />
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Father of one.<BR/><br />
Gardener, chef, tinkerer, woodworker, HAM Radio operator, electronics and electrical repairman, diesel mechanic, geology buff, science nerd and general handyman.<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
Callsign: KE5SGA<BR/><br />
<BR/></div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User:Jarogers2001&diff=25329User:Jarogers20012014-02-09T07:29:44Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
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<div>[[Image:JamesR.JPG|right|thumb|James Rogers]]<br />
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{| style="align: right; float: right; border: 0px" cellspacing = 0<br />
|{{User Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Marsp Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Exd Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Sf Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Member}}<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
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<br />
Father of one.<BR/><br />
Gardener, chef, tinkerer, HAM Radio operator, amateur geologist (rock collector), Nerd and general handyman.<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
Callsign: KE5SGA<BR/><br />
<BR/></div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Jarogers2001&diff=16558User talk:Jarogers20012011-09-04T16:54:53Z<p>Jarogers2001: Undo revision 16359 by 83.206.5.77 (talk)</p>
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<div>Welcome to my mess. Occasionally I clean it up.<br />
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Leave me a message by editing this page. (click "Edit" right next to "Discussion" at the top of this page)<br />
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Please sign with <nowiki>'~~~~'</nowiki> or leave your contact information if not logged in. You may also contact me at the [http://moonsocietyforum.com/ Moon Society Forum].<br />
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:lol: I thought I left a redirect on your personal page after I page-jacked it. I did the whole thing because a) there was a link to the person page in question from a template (which I actually found after moving the thing) and b) the personal page in questions kept showing up in the lists of pages needing fixing (the real reason) and c) it was a handy thing that people other than you might need. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 21:43, 28 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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I'm trying to <b>clean up</b> this mess, not make it worse! Why would I jack a page and not leave things working correctly? :lol: [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 01:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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Yeah, one of my attempts to fix some dead links and such ballooned out of control. So yep, we've got a bunch of new templates borrowed from Wikipedia. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 11:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
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BTW, I'm in the process of removing the ballooned templates and pages. Recheck to see if your desired template is still there. If it disappears, reimport or ask me to do so. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 12:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== oops... ==<br />
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Sorry, I accidentally uploaded the wrong image to Marspedia. Could you please delete it? Thanks. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 20:45, 30 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
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testing - jarogers2001<br />
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== A problem on Lunarpedia == <br />
Anonymous IP's have edited Strangelv's User:talk page with no response. There is a new user account that has been started in the Russian language. I suspect illegal activity abusing Lunarpedia's undefended condition. I suggest the temporary prohibition of new accounts on Lunarpedia until this gets sorted out. There should be a policy of english language only on Lunarpedia pages if that policy does not exist already. This is a crisis that I hope we can come through. I am sorry that I am not in position to take on administrative responsibilities for Lunarpedia at present. I am willing to look into what would be needed. Anonymous edits at Lunarpedia should also be temporarily disabled.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 16:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== something to delete ==<br />
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Hi James, we have a bunch of [[Marsp:Deletion|files and other stuff to delete]] on Marspedia. No sysops seem to be around for months. Can you please help us? Thanks! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:36, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Is there something wrong with my hints on [[Marsp:User_talk:PPark]]? What is your opinion about Russian/Cyrillic contents? What is your opinion about my other hints? You seem to welcome the import of whole existing documents. I am afaid Marspedia is (mis)used as mere web space for another project. I would like to develop a common understanding of how Marspedia should act. The policies are not quite clear. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:40, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== non Mars related advertising on Marspedia site ==<br />
Hello Jarogers, <br />
New User:4400 has put a link to Puma shoes on his user page. I do not think this is the sort of contribution Marspedia seeks. I do not know if the corporation has anything to do with this. I could start with a comment on User:4400's talk page, but editing User:4400's user page may be necessary. I thought I would seek your input.[[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:04, 4 July 2010 (UTC) Thanks. [[User:Farred|Farred]] 15:14, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Hi, Jarogers2001, == <br />
<br />
:The real world seems to have taken much of your time away from Lunarpedia, but I hope you still hold the web site dear. <br />
:With my 1st of September 2008 edit to the [[Size of Infrastructure]] article I removed a <nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki> template, but I realize that with my limited knowledge of wiki tech and good style conventions I may have been unjustified in removing it. I would be happy for any suggestions for improving articles. Do you think studying the Wikipedia manual of style would help? Thanks for your consideration. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 17:15, 31 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Life tends to do that :-/<br />
::Studying the manual always helps. Other than tweaking my pet peeve about extremely long sentences (grammar nazism) the article looks pretty good. I recommend adding some pertinent illustrations. -- [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 16:42, 2 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Thanks. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 01:48, 3 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I have also noticed problems with run-on sentences in my writing. I tend to forget though. The reminder helps. Illustrations would help in a number of articles, but my lack of skill deters me. In one or two instances the need falls within my ability as an illustrator. It will take time. Where I am capable of some technique, still I have little experience. I can tackle the writing sooner. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:53, 3 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Feel free to use pre-existing concept images, such as those available from nasa. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 00:38, 5 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::I hit the writing in <nowiki>[[Size of Infrastructure]]</nowiki> first and found more problems than I anticipated. I have ideas for illustrations, but I have already spent more time than I have on Lunarpedia. I must attend to real life. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 06:11, 5 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Oh boy, I definitely understand that predicament. [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 23:13, 18 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
If you look at Marspedia you will see that after taking care of some real life issues I posted stuff there before here. I have not forgotten the graphics for Lunarpedia. I have a little electronic camera and some pictures of rockets. I am making progress towards something I can upload. And real life keeps making demands. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 21:33, 19 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:The graphics aren't a requirement or anything, just a suggestion to use illustrations to help make your point. Life comes first. Sounds like you need a few personal clones as badly as I do. We should mug Peter and make him tell us where he gets his.<br />
::I never thought that graphics were a requirement. Your suggestion about what could improve articles is what I sought. You reminded me of things that I have put off so long that I forgot about them. Don't get the wrong idea about my busy life. I think I put far less time per day into looking after real life concerns than most people. With the quality of graphics that I upload, I can only get better. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 03:28, 1 September 2010 (UTC) <br />
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== The spelling of aluminium == <br />
A new user, Jotagiraldez, is apparently very productive and talented. One thing he changed that I would disagree with is the spelling of aluminum being changed to aluminium, the British variant that my spell checker flags as an error. I give an argument for the old spelling on the [[Talk:Aluminium]] page if you care to look. Apparently I failed to save the edit the last time I tried to send you this message.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 16:09, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Jarogers2001&diff=16557User talk:Jarogers20012011-09-04T16:54:23Z<p>Jarogers2001: Reverted edits by 91.121.138.19 (talk) to last revision by 83.206.5.77</p>
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<div>Wow! Great tihkning! JK</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:BacktotheMoonWiki&diff=15956Talk:BacktotheMoonWiki2010-11-15T17:11:56Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
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<div>Is that wiki still alive? <br />
<br />
Above comment is by user Jotagiraldez at 02:12 hours UTC on the 8th of November 2010. <br />
<br />
I have never been able to connect to the BacktotheMoonWiki. I believe that I tried the link more than a year ago. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 03:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: The majority of that wiki's non-fiction content was moved by it's admin, [[User:Jriley|Tom Riley]], to Lunarpedia. Fiction content was moved to [[sf:Category:Stories|Scientifiction<sup><b>sf</b></sup>]] -- [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 17:11, 15 November 2010 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Aluminum&diff=15872Talk:Aluminum2010-11-13T16:43:57Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Internationality */</p>
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<div>Someone with ideas about aluminium/aluminum on the Luna? The problem is that there is no Fluor for Hall-Heroult. Well we can still rely on incrementing to 1800 Celsius... but, how we dissipate the heat... What about ion-sputtering?<br />
<br />
How about other metals. All the Iron we could ever use in Luna depends on how many carbon we import from Earth... (to reduce Iron ores...and purify the non oxidized one...) Other process??<br />
What about Sodium and Magnesium?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jotagiraldez]] 01:53, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The spelling of Aluminum == <br />
The authority that Jotagiraldez claims for the spelling to aluminium, IUPAC, is not an authority on English spelling and does not claim that a particular spelling of aluminum is exclusively correct. <br />
<br />
"The form of nomenclature which should be used depends on the public to which it is addressed: as such there is no single correct form, but rather different forms which are more or less appropriate in different circumstances." from Wikipedia article on IUPAC nomenclature. <br />
<br />
"The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) adopted aluminium as the standard international name for the element in 1990, but three years later recognized aluminum as an acceptable variant. Hence their periodic table includes both. IUPAC prefers the use of aluminium in its internal publications, although nearly as many IUPAC publications use the spelling aluminum." from Wikipedia article on Aluminium#Present-day spelling. <br />
<br />
The Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition, (c)2003 states that aluminium is chiefly a British spelling. The main entry is aluminum. <br />
<br />
The McGRAW-HILL ENCYCLOPEDIA OF Science & Technology 8th Edition (c)1997 does not even have an entry for aluminium in its index. It uses the spelling aluminum. <br />
<br />
The Wikipedia article about Aluminum_Company_of_America uses the spelling aluminum except for the names of other aluminum related companies and publications that contain the spelling aluminium. <br />
<br />
[http://www.chemie.de/lexikon/e/?d=none&ps=Aluminum&dienst=lexikon&didsearch=1&lucenesort=r&pw=a&defop=and&wild=yes CHEMIE.DE Encyclopedia of Chemistry] lists 441 entries with the word aluminum. <br />
<br />
In short there is no clear evidence that the spelling of aluminum should have been changed. The authority that counts in this case is The Moon Society and editors of this web site. I for one favor the spelling aluminum and would prefer that it be restored. I will see if others care about the matter. -- [[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Internationality ===<br />
<br />
The link seems to be ok... I really do not care how it is spelled, everyone is free to change it...<br />
<br />
However, both forms seems to be ok...<br />
<br />
I think that in the future with more internationality... Aluminium would be more accepted. In South-America I believe that Aluminium is preferred over aluminum. Just make sense in Portuguese (Aluminho) and Spanish (Aluminio). When I was working in Brazil, many scholars used Aluminium over Aluminum. Do not know why... One of them was American.<br />
--[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jotagiraldez]] 02:09, 10 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: If I remember correctly, I think I originally set up Aluminium to redirect to Aluminum. As long as the redirect is in place, it doesn't matter how we spell it. I support switching the element article name, and references in the article to Aluminium in order to line up with IUPAC standards, but please refrain from changing the name in other articles. Adding (IUPAC: aluminium) or something like that is ok, but aluminum should be left in most places until [http://www.google.com/trends?q=aluminum%2C+aluminium aluminium trends upwards in web searches.] - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 16:26, 13 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
: [[Al]] was a double redirect leading to [[Aluminum]] then [[Aluminium]]. Fixed now. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 16:43, 13 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exact Quotes == <br />
If quotation marks are used, the quote should be the exact words and in the case of quoted text the exact spelling of the source. If one wishes to correct and edit a quotation, it should be made into an indirect quote, paraphrasing the source, as I did for the quote from PERMANENT.</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Aluminum&diff=15870Talk:Aluminum2010-11-13T16:40:44Z<p>Jarogers2001: moving Internationality to a subtopic of spelling</p>
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<div>Someone with ideas about aluminium/aluminum on the Luna? The problem is that there is no Fluor for Hall-Heroult. Well we can still rely on incrementing to 1800 Celsius... but, how we dissipate the heat... What about ion-sputtering?<br />
<br />
How about other metals. All the Iron we could ever use in Luna depends on how many carbon we import from Earth... (to reduce Iron ores...and purify the non oxidized one...) Other process??<br />
What about Sodium and Magnesium?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jotagiraldez]] 01:53, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The spelling of Aluminum == <br />
The authority that Jotagiraldez claims for the spelling to aluminium, IUPAC, is not an authority on English spelling and does not claim that a particular spelling of aluminum is exclusively correct. <br />
<br />
"The form of nomenclature which should be used depends on the public to which it is addressed: as such there is no single correct form, but rather different forms which are more or less appropriate in different circumstances." from Wikipedia article on IUPAC nomenclature. <br />
<br />
"The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) adopted aluminium as the standard international name for the element in 1990, but three years later recognized aluminum as an acceptable variant. Hence their periodic table includes both. IUPAC prefers the use of aluminium in its internal publications, although nearly as many IUPAC publications use the spelling aluminum." from Wikipedia article on Aluminium#Present-day spelling. <br />
<br />
The Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition, (c)2003 states that aluminium is chiefly a British spelling. The main entry is aluminum. <br />
<br />
The McGRAW-HILL ENCYCLOPEDIA OF Science & Technology 8th Edition (c)1997 does not even have an entry for aluminium in its index. It uses the spelling aluminum. <br />
<br />
The Wikipedia article about Aluminum_Company_of_America uses the spelling aluminum except for the names of other aluminum related companies and publications that contain the spelling aluminium. <br />
<br />
[http://www.chemie.de/lexikon/e/?d=none&ps=Aluminum&dienst=lexikon&didsearch=1&lucenesort=r&pw=a&defop=and&wild=yes CHEMIE.DE Encyclopedia of Chemistry] lists 441 entries with the word aluminum. <br />
<br />
In short there is no clear evidence that the spelling of aluminum should have been changed. The authority that counts in this case is The Moon Society and editors of this web site. I for one favor the spelling aluminum and would prefer that it be restored. I will see if others care about the matter. -- [[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Internationality ===<br />
<br />
The link seems to be ok... I really do not care how it is spelled, everyone is free to change it...<br />
<br />
However, both forms seems to be ok...<br />
<br />
I think that in the future with more internationality... Aluminium would be more accepted. In South-America I believe that Aluminium is preferred over aluminum. Just make sense in Portuguese (Aluminho) and Spanish (Aluminio). When I was working in Brazil, many scholars used Aluminium over Aluminum. Do not know why... One of them was American.<br />
--[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jotagiraldez]] 02:09, 10 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: If I remember correctly, I think I originally set up Aluminium to redirect to Aluminum. As long as the redirect is in place, it doesn't matter how we spell it. I support switching the element article name, and references in the article to Aluminium in order to line up with IUPAC standards, but please refrain from changing the name in other articles. Adding (IUPAC: aluminium) or something like that is ok, but aluminum should be left in most places until [http://www.google.com/trends?q=aluminum%2C+aluminium aluminium trends upwards in web searches.] - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 16:26, 13 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exact Quotes == <br />
If quotation marks are used, the quote should be the exact words and in the case of quoted text the exact spelling of the source. If one wishes to correct and edit a quotation, it should be made into an indirect quote, paraphrasing the source, as I did for the quote from PERMANENT.</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Aluminum&diff=15869Talk:Aluminum2010-11-13T16:32:23Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Internationality */</p>
<hr />
<div>Someone with ideas about aluminium/aluminum on the Luna? The problem is that there is no Fluor for Hall-Heroult. Well we can still rely on incrementing to 1800 Celsius... but, how we dissipate the heat... What about ion-sputtering?<br />
<br />
How about other metals. All the Iron we could ever use in Luna depends on how many carbon we import from Earth... (to reduce Iron ores...and purify the non oxidized one...) Other process??<br />
What about Sodium and Magnesium?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jotagiraldez]] 01:53, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The spelling of Aluminum == <br />
The authority that Jotagiraldez claims for the spelling to aluminium, IUPAC, is not an authority on English spelling and does not claim that a particular spelling of aluminum is exclusively correct. <br />
<br />
"The form of nomenclature which should be used depends on the public to which it is addressed: as such there is no single correct form, but rather different forms which are more or less appropriate in different circumstances." from Wikipedia article on IUPAC nomenclature. <br />
<br />
"The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) adopted aluminium as the standard international name for the element in 1990, but three years later recognized aluminum as an acceptable variant. Hence their periodic table includes both. IUPAC prefers the use of aluminium in its internal publications, although nearly as many IUPAC publications use the spelling aluminum." from Wikipedia article on Aluminium#Present-day spelling. <br />
<br />
The Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition, (c)2003 states that aluminium is chiefly a British spelling. The main entry is aluminum. <br />
<br />
The McGRAW-HILL ENCYCLOPEDIA OF Science & Technology 8th Edition (c)1997 does not even have an entry for aluminium in its index. It uses the spelling aluminum. <br />
<br />
The Wikipedia article about Aluminum_Company_of_America uses the spelling aluminum except for the names of other aluminum related companies and publications that contain the spelling aluminium. <br />
<br />
[http://www.chemie.de/lexikon/e/?d=none&ps=Aluminum&dienst=lexikon&didsearch=1&lucenesort=r&pw=a&defop=and&wild=yes CHEMIE.DE Encyclopedia of Chemistry] lists 441 entries with the word aluminum. <br />
<br />
In short there is no clear evidence that the spelling of aluminum should have been changed. The authority that counts in this case is The Moon Society and editors of this web site. I for one favor the spelling aluminum and would prefer that it be restored. I will see if others care about the matter. -- [[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Internationality ==<br />
<br />
The link seems to be ok... I really do not care how it is spelled, everyone is free to change it...<br />
<br />
However, both forms seems to be ok...<br />
<br />
I think that in the future with more internationality... Aluminium would be more accepted. In South-America I believe that Aluminium is preferred over aluminum. Just make sense in Portuguese (Aluminho) and Spanish (Aluminio). When I was working in Brazil, many scholars used Aluminium over Aluminum. Do not know why... One of them was American.<br />
--[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jotagiraldez]] 02:09, 10 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: If I remember correctly, I think I originally set up Aluminium to redirect to Aluminum. As long as the redirect is in place, it doesn't matter how we spell it. I support switching the element article name, and references in the article to Aluminium in order to line up with IUPAC standards, but please refrain from changing the name in other articles. Adding (IUPAC: aluminium) or something like that is ok, but aluminum should be left in most places until [http://www.google.com/trends?q=aluminum%2C+aluminium aluminium trends upwards in web searches.] - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 16:26, 13 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exact Quotes == <br />
If quotation marks are used, the quote should be the exact words and in the case of quoted text the exact spelling of the source. If one wishes to correct and edit a quotation, it should be made into an indirect quote, paraphrasing the source, as I did for the quote from PERMANENT.</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Aluminum&diff=15868Talk:Aluminum2010-11-13T16:26:10Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Internationality */</p>
<hr />
<div>Someone with ideas about aluminium/aluminum on the Luna? The problem is that there is no Fluor for Hall-Heroult. Well we can still rely on incrementing to 1800 Celsius... but, how we dissipate the heat... What about ion-sputtering?<br />
<br />
How about other metals. All the Iron we could ever use in Luna depends on how many carbon we import from Earth... (to reduce Iron ores...and purify the non oxidized one...) Other process??<br />
What about Sodium and Magnesium?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jotagiraldez]] 01:53, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The spelling of Aluminum == <br />
The authority that Jotagiraldez claims for the spelling to aluminium, IUPAC, is not an authority on English spelling and does not claim that a particular spelling of aluminum is exclusively correct. <br />
<br />
"The form of nomenclature which should be used depends on the public to which it is addressed: as such there is no single correct form, but rather different forms which are more or less appropriate in different circumstances." from Wikipedia article on IUPAC nomenclature. <br />
<br />
"The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) adopted aluminium as the standard international name for the element in 1990, but three years later recognized aluminum as an acceptable variant. Hence their periodic table includes both. IUPAC prefers the use of aluminium in its internal publications, although nearly as many IUPAC publications use the spelling aluminum." from Wikipedia article on Aluminium#Present-day spelling. <br />
<br />
The Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition, (c)2003 states that aluminium is chiefly a British spelling. The main entry is aluminum. <br />
<br />
The McGRAW-HILL ENCYCLOPEDIA OF Science & Technology 8th Edition (c)1997 does not even have an entry for aluminium in its index. It uses the spelling aluminum. <br />
<br />
The Wikipedia article about Aluminum_Company_of_America uses the spelling aluminum except for the names of other aluminum related companies and publications that contain the spelling aluminium. <br />
<br />
[http://www.chemie.de/lexikon/e/?d=none&ps=Aluminum&dienst=lexikon&didsearch=1&lucenesort=r&pw=a&defop=and&wild=yes CHEMIE.DE Encyclopedia of Chemistry] lists 441 entries with the word aluminum. <br />
<br />
In short there is no clear evidence that the spelling of aluminum should have been changed. The authority that counts in this case is The Moon Society and editors of this web site. I for one favor the spelling aluminum and would prefer that it be restored. I will see if others care about the matter. -- [[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Internationality ==<br />
<br />
The link seems to be ok... I really do not care how it is spelled, everyone is free to change it...<br />
<br />
However, both forms seems to be ok...<br />
<br />
I think that in the future with more internationality... Aluminium would be more accepted. In South-America I believe that Aluminium is preferred over aluminum. Just make sense in Portuguese (Aluminho) and Spanish (Aluminio). When I was working in Brazil, many scholars used Aluminium over Aluminum. Do not know why... One of them was American.<br />
--[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jotagiraldez]] 02:09, 10 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: As long as aluminum or aluminium redirect to the right article, it won't really matter which spelling is used. If I remember correctly, I think I originally set up Aluminium to redirect to Aluminum. As long as the redirect is in place, it doesn't matter how we spell it. I support switching the element article name, and references in the article to Aluminium in order to line up with IUPAC standards, but please refrain from changing the name in other articles. Adding (IUPAC: aluminium) or something like that is ok, but aluminum should be left in most places until [http://www.google.com/trends?q=aluminum%2C+aluminium aluminium trends upwards in web searches.] - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 16:26, 13 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exact Quotes == <br />
If quotation marks are used, the quote should be the exact words and in the case of quoted text the exact spelling of the source. If one wishes to correct and edit a quotation, it should be made into an indirect quote, paraphrasing the source, as I did for the quote from PERMANENT.</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=People_on_the_Moon&diff=15679People on the Moon2010-10-24T17:23:36Z<p>Jarogers2001: Reverted edits by 76.118.56.31 (Talk) to last revision by Jriley</p>
<hr />
<div>{{One Sided Article}}<br />
[[Image:Apollo17Rover.jpg|frame|left|Apollo 17 Moonscape with rover, NASA archive photo]]<br />
<BR clear="all"/><br />
{|align=right<br />
|__TOC__<br />
|}<br />
{{Controversial}}<br />
{{Fork2sf}}<br />
<font size=5> What types of People will Settle the Moon?</font><br />
----<br />
<br />
It will take many types of people to build a successful lunar settlement. Many will have specific jobs or have had lengthy training. Others will go to the Moon with specific intentions, like mining or settlement.<br />
<br />
'''Do you see yourself in this list?'''<br />
<br />
This list is of the possible types of people it will take to run a full scale lunar mining settlement such as the one described by [[Harrison Schmitt]] in ''Return to the Moon''<ref>'''Return to the Moon''' ''Exploration, Enterprise, and Energy in the Human Settlement of Space'' - Harrison Schmitt, Foreword by Neil Armstrong - 2005, ISBN 0-387-24285-6</ref>. More details can be found in [[Timelines]].<br />
<br />
A separate list is available of [[People on Earth]] who will support the lunar settlement and [[types of Robots]] on the Moon gives the non human participants. <br />
<br />
The competition for any of the lunar berths will be very stiff. People in different groups are apt to feel that others had it too easy getting to the Moon.<br />
<br />
This list is also intended to help develop characters for stories about settling the Moon.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Types of People on the Moon==<br />
<br />
They may be called "Mooners" or "Luners".<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Astronauts / Cosmonauts / Taikonauts === <br />
<br />
* They are the first group of people on the Moon<br />
* They are government employees<br />
* They are trained in US, Russia, or China<br />
** Their training location is indicated by their title<br />
* They visit Moon only for short periods to do specific tasks<br />
** They stay a few days to a few weeks,<br />
** They rotate in and out over longer periods<br />
* They are always expected to go home <br />
* They deliver and install scientific equipment<br />
* They help deliver and setup new facilities<br />
* They deliver and help setup the first mining equipment<br />
* They may be any sex or nationality<br />
* Their selection has a political component<br />
* What they want to do is to put their footprint upon the Moon<br />
** To go somewhere no one has ever gone before<br />
<br />
<br />
===Miners===<br />
<br />
They may be called "Sand Hogs", or with a derogatory twist, "Mules".<br />
<br />
* They are the second group of people on the Moon<br />
* Their primary mission is to keep the mining machines, the Sandworms, working<br />
* They work hard and play hard<br />
* They have contracted for a one way trip to the Moon<br />
* They are past mid-career<br />
* They expect to stay on the Moon for life<br />
* They rarely return to Earth<br />
* They are employees of The Company<br />
* They may be either sex<br />
** They can '''not''' have children<br />
* They may be any nationality<br />
* They are select by The Company from long list of applicants who volunteer<br />
* They pass a very difficult physical examination<br />
** with a long psychological examination<br />
* They usually serve as an Earth-side worker before their trip to the Moon<br />
* They may provide any support service<br />
* They may assist astronauts <br />
* What they want is to:<br />
** Make the economics of the lunar mine work<br />
** To lay the ground work for lunar settlement<br />
* Some die on the Moon<br />
** They are buried on Moon<br />
** These may be made into computer avatars<br />
<br />
<br />
===Tourists===<br />
<br />
They may be called “worthless *#*#@ …”.<br />
<br />
* They only stay for short periods on the Moon<br />
** A few days<br />
* They are very rich people on Earth<br />
* They have a robot buddy at all times<br />
* Their fees are important to early economic startup<br />
* All other groups of lunar people have a love / hate relationship with them<br />
** They are subjects of snide comments by others behind their backs<br />
* They are '''not''' allowed to convert to other types of Mooners<br />
** because of a lack of training<br />
** Have not gone through the training process<br />
* What they want:<br />
** To say then have been there (and you haven't).<br />
<br />
<br />
===Retirees=== <br />
<br />
They may be called “Grandpa” or “Grandma”. <br />
<br />
* They enjoy retirement in low gravity <br />
* They pay huge fees. <br />
* This program is an extension of the tourist program. <br />
* They are very, very rich <br />
* They own a large block of The Company stock <br />
* They may have political connections of value to the lunar settlement <br />
* They will have a valet robot with an Earth controller <br />
* They will have already picked out their lunar grave site and epitaph <br />
* Their duties: <br />
** Serve as grandparents to settlement children <br />
** Serve as mentor in business management training <br />
** Serve as tour guide <br />
* What they want: <br />
** To fulfill a dream <br />
<br />
<br />
For further details refer to [http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Malapert_Park#Retirement_on_the_Moon Retirement on the Moon]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Settlers===<br />
<br />
They may call themselves ‘the real Moon people”.<br />
<br />
* They intend to raise families on the Moon<br />
* They come as couples and can have children<br />
* They are long-term residents<br />
** Almost certainly for life<br />
* They are the youngest age group<br />
* They make attractive role models for young people on Earth<br />
* Their presence is possible only after the lunar facilities are well established<br />
** They need medical care, schools, and extra living space.<br />
** They are the last group to arrive<br />
* Their job is to work in the mines and do all support services<br />
** They do most of the hard work of building a real settlement<br />
* They help to expand all facilities<br />
* They stress farming<br />
** They introduce animal husbandry<br />
* What they want:<br />
** To settle the Moon permanently<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
==Personality Types on the Moon==<br />
<br />
<br />
Can you find yourself here:<br />
<br />
<br />
===Adventurer===<br />
<br />
You might call them “Indiana”.<br />
<br />
* They live for risk<br />
** Adrenaline junkies<br />
* They can be an astronaut or miner,<br />
** But not a settler<br />
* They distrust large organizations, government or corporate<br />
** Yet, they are good behind the scenes wheeler-dealers<br />
* They are hail-fellow-well-met<br />
* They grew up on Star Trek and other great Science fiction franchises<br />
* What he or she wants:<br />
** The excitement of living on the edge<br />
<br />
<br />
===Explorer===<br />
<br />
They may be referred to as “another Marko Polo”.<br />
<br />
* They are driven to be out at the edge of the human experience.<br />
** If they are not at that edge then spend their time plotting to get there.<br />
* They may be an astronaut, miner, or settler<br />
* What he or she wants:<br />
** To go even farther<br />
** To take a rover and drive.<br />
<br />
<br />
===Entrepreneur===<br />
<br />
They might be referred to as “another Bill Gates”.<br />
<br />
* They may be an astronaut, minor, or settler<br />
* They are driven to work, to build new businesses<br />
** Sometimes at the expense of family<br />
* What he or she wants:<br />
** To found a new industry on the Moon<br />
** To make a truly impressive amount of money<br />
<br />
<br />
===Family person===<br />
<br />
May be called “Mrs.”, Mr.”, “Mom”, or “Pop”.<br />
<br />
* They may be astronaut or settler,<br />
** But not a miner, at least at this time in their life<br />
* They are the salt of the Earth and now of the Moon<br />
** They are stable, hard working, and reliable<br />
* They travel in the footsteps of Neal Armstrong<br />
* What he or she wants:<br />
** To settle the Moon<br />
* To raise a family<br />
<br />
<br />
===Your idea Here=== <br />
<br />
* Who else would you meet on the Moon?<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
==People with Specific Jobs==<br />
<br />
Some people will have very specific and necessary jobs.<br />
<br />
<br />
===Miner===<br />
<br />
They may be called “Sandhog”.<br />
<br />
* He or she will keep the big lunar volatiles harvesters running<br />
* He or she is an employee of the Company<br />
* He or she is a miner<br />
* What he or she wants:<br />
** To keep this operation running<br />
** To keep the Helium 3 production high<br />
<br />
<br />
===Lunar Operations Supervisor===<br />
<br />
They may be called “The Boss”.<br />
<br />
* He or she is the highest ranking manager on the Moon<br />
* He or she is an employee of the Company<br />
* He or she is a miner<br />
* What he or she wants:<br />
** To keep this operation running<br />
** To keep the Helium 3 production high<br />
<br />
<br />
===Union Steward===<br />
<br />
They may be called “The union guy”.<br />
<br />
* He or she is the representative for the workers union on the Moon<br />
* He or she is an employee of the Company<br />
* He or she is a miner<br />
* He or she supports workers<br />
** In personnel disputes<br />
** In job related problems<br />
* He or she participates in negotiations over working conditions<br />
** Hours<br />
** Down time between shifts<br />
** Required overtime<br />
** Benefits like mass to and from Earth<br />
* He or she does '''not''' negotiate:<br />
** Strikes (illegal, like air traffic controllers)<br />
** Pay (set by individual personal services contracts)<br />
* What he or she wants:<br />
** To keep people happy and productive<br />
** To keep the things running smoothly<br />
<br />
<br />
===Scientist===<br />
<br />
They may be called “Professor”.<br />
<br />
* He or she is responsible for scientific experimentation<br />
** Sets up new instruments<br />
** Maintains existing instruments<br />
* He or she goes on ground exploration surveys with the rover<br />
* He or she follows in the footsteps of [[Harrison Schmitt]]<br />
** Supports mining surveys<br />
* He or she supports educational outreach<br />
** For students back on Earth<br />
** For settler children on the Moon<br />
* He or she supports health tests on lunar people<br />
* What he or she wants:<br />
** To keep the data flowing<br />
** To get their name on a very large number of referred science papers.<br />
<br />
<br />
===Chief Security Officer===<br />
<br />
They may be called “Sheriff”.<br />
<br />
* He or she is responsible for all security maters<br />
* He or she keeps a lock box for all fire arms and explosives<br />
* He or she is '''not''' Sean Connery in “Outland”.<br />
* He or she has previous law enforcement training<br />
* He or she usually has previous military training<br />
* He or she may have a posse of trained workers for emergencies<br />
* What he or she wants:<br />
** To keep a lid on this thing<br />
<br />
<br />
===Chief Medical Officer===<br />
<br />
They may be called “Doc”.<br />
<br />
* He or she is responsible for all health issues<br />
* He or she runs the clinic<br />
* He or she has a lock box for all dangerous drugs<br />
* He or she is '''not''' McCoy in “Star Trek”<br />
* First responder in all incidents involving people<br />
* What he or she wants:<br />
** To keep everybody alive<br />
** To keep everybody healthy<br />
<br />
<br />
===Fitness Instructor===<br />
<br />
May be called "Coach".<br />
<br />
* He or she runs the gym<br />
* He or she makes people's exercise plans to counter act 1/6 g problems<br />
** He or she takes special care with people who plan to return to Earth<br />
* He or she supports the Doc on health issues<br />
** He or she is a first responder<br />
* He or she organizes exercise games and contests between Moon people and Earth bound enthusiasts<br />
* What he or she wants:<br />
** To keep everybody healthy<br />
** To show off what the human body can do in 1/6 g<br />
<br />
<br />
===Information Technologist (IT)===<br />
<br />
They may be called “IT guy”, as in “get the IT guy”.<br />
<br />
* They keep the many computer systems running and up to date<br />
* They have responsibilities in computer security<br />
* They support robot control and communications systems<br />
* They support scientific data taking<br />
* What they want:<br />
** To keep this colossal mess running<br />
** To play with the toys<br />
<br />
<br />
===Tour Guides===<br />
<br />
They may be called the "Cruse Director".<br />
<br />
* They only stay for short periods on the Moon<br />
** A few days, rarely a week<br />
* They look after the tourists<br />
* They may be a lunar retiree<br />
* They are tolerated by, but not liked by, the real lunar workers<br />
* The fees paid by the tourists are important to early economic startup<br />
* What they want:<br />
** To make lunar tourism work.<br />
<br />
<br />
===Your Lunar Job Here===<br />
<br />
* Envision yourself on the Moon in your dream job.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
==Other Considerations==<br />
<br />
There are other considerations on the selection of people for the Moon.<br />
<br />
<br />
===Nationalities===<br />
<br />
* All groups may have people of any nationality<br />
* Many are from the major space-faring nations:<br />
** USA, Russia, China<br />
* Some are from other space participating nations include: <br />
** Europe, Canada, Japan, India, Israel<br />
* Tourists and retirees can come from any wealthy country, e.g. one of the first space tourists was Mark Shuttleworth from South Africa. Middle Eastern oil families are likely. There are billionaires in most countries in Asia, e.g. Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, also Australia, New Zealand.<br />
* Some come from odd places and nobody can quite figure out how they got to the Moon<br />
<br />
<br />
===Transitions===<br />
<br />
Some types of people can change into other types, and some cannot.<br />
<br />
'''Allowed transitions:'''<br />
<br />
* Astronaut to miner<br />
* Astronaut to Earth worker<br />
* Astronaut to settler<br />
* Earth-bound enthusiast to miner<br />
* Dead miner to avatar<br />
* Settler to miner -- by death of partner<br />
<br />
'''Not allowed:'''<br />
<br />
* Tourist to miner or Settler -- At least not without returning to Earth first. They are not seen as properly trained and the people who worked hard to get to the Moon fairly resent them buying their way in.<br />
* Miner to settler -- The miners are required to be older workers. The females would likely be past reproductive age. All male miners would have vasectomies. The settlers are all required to be fertile.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
Not all the characters on the Moon will be human beings. See [[Types of Robots]].<br />
<br />
Some people are stuck on Earth. See [[People on Earth]].<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<br />
<references/><br />
[[Category:Settlement]]<br />
[[Category:Essays]]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Jarogers2001&diff=15626User talk:Jarogers20012010-08-18T23:13:43Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Hi, Jarogers2001, */</p>
<hr />
<div>Welcome to my mess. Occasionally I clean it up.<br />
<br />
Leave me a message by editing this page. (click "Edit" right next to "Discussion" at the top of this page)<br />
<br />
Please sign with <nowiki>'~~~~'</nowiki> or leave your contact information if not logged in. You may also contact me at the [http://moonsocietyforum.com/ Moon Society Forum].<br />
<br />
:lol: I thought I left a redirect on your personal page after I page-jacked it. I did the whole thing because a) there was a link to the person page in question from a template (which I actually found after moving the thing) and b) the personal page in questions kept showing up in the lists of pages needing fixing (the real reason) and c) it was a handy thing that people other than you might need. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 21:43, 28 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm trying to <b>clean up</b> this mess, not make it worse! Why would I jack a page and not leave things working correctly? :lol: [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 01:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yeah, one of my attempts to fix some dead links and such ballooned out of control. So yep, we've got a bunch of new templates borrowed from Wikipedia. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 11:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
BTW, I'm in the process of removing the ballooned templates and pages. Recheck to see if your desired template is still there. If it disappears, reimport or ask me to do so. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 12:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== oops... ==<br />
<br />
Sorry, I accidentally uploaded the wrong image to Marspedia. Could you please delete it? Thanks. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 20:45, 30 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
testing - jarogers2001<br />
<br />
== A problem on Lunarpedia == <br />
Anonymous IP's have edited Strangelv's User:talk page with no response. There is a new user account that has been started in the Russian language. I suspect illegal activity abusing Lunarpedia's undefended condition. I suggest the temporary prohibition of new accounts on Lunarpedia until this gets sorted out. There should be a policy of english language only on Lunarpedia pages if that policy does not exist already. This is a crisis that I hope we can come through. I am sorry that I am not in position to take on administrative responsibilities for Lunarpedia at present. I am willing to look into what would be needed. Anonymous edits at Lunarpedia should also be temporarily disabled.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 16:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== something to delete ==<br />
<br />
Hi James, we have a bunch of [[Marsp:Deletion|files and other stuff to delete]] on Marspedia. No sysops seem to be around for months. Can you please help us? Thanks! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:36, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is there something wrong with my hints on [[Marsp:User_talk:PPark]]? What is your opinion about Russian/Cyrillic contents? What is your opinion about my other hints? You seem to welcome the import of whole existing documents. I am afaid Marspedia is (mis)used as mere web space for another project. I would like to develop a common understanding of how Marspedia should act. The policies are not quite clear. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:40, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== non Mars related advertising on Marspedia site ==<br />
Hello Jarogers, <br />
New User:4400 has put a link to Puma shoes on his user page. I do not think this is the sort of contribution Marspedia seeks. I do not know if the corporation has anything to do with this. I could start with a comment on User:4400's talk page, but editing User:4400's user page may be necessary. I thought I would seek your input.[[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:04, 4 July 2010 (UTC) Thanks. [[User:Farred|Farred]] 15:14, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hi, Jarogers2001, == <br />
<br />
:The real world seems to have taken much of your time away from Lunarpedia, but I hope you still hold the web site dear. <br />
:With my 1st of September 2008 edit to the [[Size of Infrastructure]] article I removed a <nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki> template, but I realize that with my limited knowledge of wiki tech and good style conventions I may have been unjustified in removing it. I would be happy for any suggestions for improving articles. Do you think studying the Wikipedia manual of style would help? Thanks for your consideration. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 17:15, 31 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Life tends to do that :-/<br />
::Studying the manual always helps. Other than tweaking my pet peeve about extremely long sentences (grammar nazism) the article looks pretty good. I recommend adding some pertinent illustrations. -- [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 16:42, 2 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Thanks. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 01:48, 3 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I have also noticed problems with run-on sentences in my writing. I tend to forget though. The reminder helps. Illustrations would help in a number of articles, but my lack of skill deters me. In one or two instances the need falls within my ability as an illustrator. It will take time. Where I am capable of some technique, still I have little experience. I can tackle the writing sooner. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:53, 3 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Feel free to use pre-existing concept images, such as those available from nasa. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 00:38, 5 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::I hit the writing in <nowiki>[[Size of Infrastructure]]</nowiki> first and found more problems than I anticipated. I have ideas for illustrations, but I have already spent more time than I have on Lunarpedia. I must attend to real life. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 06:11, 5 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Oh boy, I definitely understand that predicament. [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 23:13, 18 August 2010 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Jarogers2001&diff=15612User talk:Jarogers20012010-08-05T00:38:57Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Hi, Jarogers2001, */</p>
<hr />
<div>Welcome to my mess. Occasionally I clean it up.<br />
<br />
Leave me a message by editing this page. (click "Edit" right next to "Discussion" at the top of this page)<br />
<br />
Please sign with <nowiki>'~~~~'</nowiki> or leave your contact information if not logged in. You may also contact me at the [http://moonsocietyforum.com/ Moon Society Forum].<br />
<br />
:lol: I thought I left a redirect on your personal page after I page-jacked it. I did the whole thing because a) there was a link to the person page in question from a template (which I actually found after moving the thing) and b) the personal page in questions kept showing up in the lists of pages needing fixing (the real reason) and c) it was a handy thing that people other than you might need. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 21:43, 28 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm trying to <b>clean up</b> this mess, not make it worse! Why would I jack a page and not leave things working correctly? :lol: [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 01:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yeah, one of my attempts to fix some dead links and such ballooned out of control. So yep, we've got a bunch of new templates borrowed from Wikipedia. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 11:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
BTW, I'm in the process of removing the ballooned templates and pages. Recheck to see if your desired template is still there. If it disappears, reimport or ask me to do so. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 12:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== oops... ==<br />
<br />
Sorry, I accidentally uploaded the wrong image to Marspedia. Could you please delete it? Thanks. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 20:45, 30 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
testing - jarogers2001<br />
<br />
== A problem on Lunarpedia == <br />
Anonymous IP's have edited Strangelv's User:talk page with no response. There is a new user account that has been started in the Russian language. I suspect illegal activity abusing Lunarpedia's undefended condition. I suggest the temporary prohibition of new accounts on Lunarpedia until this gets sorted out. There should be a policy of english language only on Lunarpedia pages if that policy does not exist already. This is a crisis that I hope we can come through. I am sorry that I am not in position to take on administrative responsibilities for Lunarpedia at present. I am willing to look into what would be needed. Anonymous edits at Lunarpedia should also be temporarily disabled.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 16:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== something to delete ==<br />
<br />
Hi James, we have a bunch of [[Marsp:Deletion|files and other stuff to delete]] on Marspedia. No sysops seem to be around for months. Can you please help us? Thanks! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:36, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is there something wrong with my hints on [[Marsp:User_talk:PPark]]? What is your opinion about Russian/Cyrillic contents? What is your opinion about my other hints? You seem to welcome the import of whole existing documents. I am afaid Marspedia is (mis)used as mere web space for another project. I would like to develop a common understanding of how Marspedia should act. The policies are not quite clear. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:40, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== non Mars related advertising on Marspedia site ==<br />
Hello Jarogers, <br />
New User:4400 has put a link to Puma shoes on his user page. I do not think this is the sort of contribution Marspedia seeks. I do not know if the corporation has anything to do with this. I could start with a comment on User:4400's talk page, but editing User:4400's user page may be necessary. I thought I would seek your input.[[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:04, 4 July 2010 (UTC) Thanks. [[User:Farred|Farred]] 15:14, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hi, Jarogers2001, == <br />
<br />
:The real world seems to have taken much of your time away from Lunarpedia, but I hope you still hold the web site dear. <br />
:With my 1st of September 2008 edit to the [[Size of Infrastructure]] article I removed a <nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki> template, but I realize that with my limited knowledge of wiki tech and good style conventions I may have been unjustified in removing it. I would be happy for any suggestions for improving articles. Do you think studying the Wikipedia manual of style would help? Thanks for your consideration. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 17:15, 31 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Life tends to do that :-/<br />
::Studying the manual always helps. Other than tweaking my pet peeve about extremely long sentences (grammar nazism) the article looks pretty good. I recommend adding some pertinent illustrations. -- [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 16:42, 2 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Thanks. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 01:48, 3 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I have also noticed problems with run-on sentences in my writing. I tend to forget though. The reminder helps. Illustrations would help in a number of articles, but my lack of skill deters me. In one or two instances the need falls within my ability as an illustrator. It will take time. Where I am capable of some technique, still I have little experience. I can tackle the writing sooner. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:53, 3 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Feel free to use pre-existing concept images, such as those available from nasa. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 00:38, 5 August 2010 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Jarogers2001&diff=15608User talk:Jarogers20012010-08-02T16:42:06Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Hi, Jarogers2001, */</p>
<hr />
<div>Welcome to my mess. Occasionally I clean it up.<br />
<br />
Leave me a message by editing this page. (click "Edit" right next to "Discussion" at the top of this page)<br />
<br />
Please sign with <nowiki>'~~~~'</nowiki> or leave your contact information if not logged in. You may also contact me at the [http://moonsocietyforum.com/ Moon Society Forum].<br />
<br />
:lol: I thought I left a redirect on your personal page after I page-jacked it. I did the whole thing because a) there was a link to the person page in question from a template (which I actually found after moving the thing) and b) the personal page in questions kept showing up in the lists of pages needing fixing (the real reason) and c) it was a handy thing that people other than you might need. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 21:43, 28 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm trying to <b>clean up</b> this mess, not make it worse! Why would I jack a page and not leave things working correctly? :lol: [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 01:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yeah, one of my attempts to fix some dead links and such ballooned out of control. So yep, we've got a bunch of new templates borrowed from Wikipedia. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 11:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
BTW, I'm in the process of removing the ballooned templates and pages. Recheck to see if your desired template is still there. If it disappears, reimport or ask me to do so. [[User:Miros1|Rose/Miros]] 12:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== oops... ==<br />
<br />
Sorry, I accidentally uploaded the wrong image to Marspedia. Could you please delete it? Thanks. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 20:45, 30 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
testing - jarogers2001<br />
<br />
== A problem on Lunarpedia == <br />
Anonymous IP's have edited Strangelv's User:talk page with no response. There is a new user account that has been started in the Russian language. I suspect illegal activity abusing Lunarpedia's undefended condition. I suggest the temporary prohibition of new accounts on Lunarpedia until this gets sorted out. There should be a policy of english language only on Lunarpedia pages if that policy does not exist already. This is a crisis that I hope we can come through. I am sorry that I am not in position to take on administrative responsibilities for Lunarpedia at present. I am willing to look into what would be needed. Anonymous edits at Lunarpedia should also be temporarily disabled.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 16:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== something to delete ==<br />
<br />
Hi James, we have a bunch of [[Marsp:Deletion|files and other stuff to delete]] on Marspedia. No sysops seem to be around for months. Can you please help us? Thanks! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:36, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is there something wrong with my hints on [[Marsp:User_talk:PPark]]? What is your opinion about Russian/Cyrillic contents? What is your opinion about my other hints? You seem to welcome the import of whole existing documents. I am afaid Marspedia is (mis)used as mere web space for another project. I would like to develop a common understanding of how Marspedia should act. The policies are not quite clear. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:40, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== non Mars related advertising on Marspedia site ==<br />
Hello Jarogers, <br />
New User:4400 has put a link to Puma shoes on his user page. I do not think this is the sort of contribution Marspedia seeks. I do not know if the corporation has anything to do with this. I could start with a comment on User:4400's talk page, but editing User:4400's user page may be necessary. I thought I would seek your input.[[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:04, 4 July 2010 (UTC) Thanks. [[User:Farred|Farred]] 15:14, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hi, Jarogers2001, == <br />
<br />
:The real world seems to have taken much of your time away from Lunarpedia, but I hope you still hold the web site dear. <br />
:With my 1st of September 2008 edit to the [[Size of Infrastructure]] article I removed a <nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki> template, but I realize that with my limited knowledge of wiki tech and good style conventions I may have been unjustified in removing it. I would be happy for any suggestions for improving articles. Do you think studying the Wikipedia manual of style would help? Thanks for your consideration. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 17:15, 31 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Life tends to do that :-/<br />
::Studying the manual always helps. Other than tweaking my pet peeve about extremely long sentences (grammar nazism) the article looks pretty good. I recommend adding some pertinent illustrations. -- [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 16:42, 2 August 2010 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User:Jarogers2001&diff=15564User:Jarogers20012010-07-04T05:18:52Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Lunar Interests */</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:JamesR.JPG|right|thumb|James Rogers]]<br />
<br />
{| style="align: right; float: right; border: 0px" cellspacing = 0<br />
|{{User Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Marsp Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Exd Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Sf Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Member}}<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''I'm a bit overwhelmed with assignments and will be going idle for a week or two during a coming round of tests. You can drop me a message on my User Talk page if you have any problems. I'll check it weekly. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 06:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)'''<br />
<br />
Public Relations<BR/><br />
The Moon Society<br />
<br />
<br />
Father of one.<BR/><br />
Gardener, chef, tinkerer, HAM Radio operator, amateur geologist (rock collector), Nerd and general handyman.<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
Callsign: KE5SGA<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
Currently enrolled in a University Transfer Program for Mathematics and Engineering.<BR/><br />
Prospective degree: Bachelor. Aerospace Engineering/Astronautix.<br />
==Lunar Interests==<br />
''If it is done every day down here, it can probably be done up there (with modifications)''<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
<!--<br />
{| style="align: right; float: right; border: 0px" cellspacing = 0<br />
|{{User Non-domestic}}<br />
|-<br />
|} --><br />
<br />
Human Waste Reclamation as a basis for Agriculture and Manufacturing.<br />
*Urine, feces, flakes of skin, toenails, hair, and other bodily fluids can provide a wealth of bio-materials with a minimum of processing. Reclamation of water is also necessary. Sounds disgusting, but we did it for thousands of years already.<br />
*Passive sterilization by exposure to outside radiation.<br />
Lunar Geology and Resources.<br />
*[[KREEP]], [[outgassing]], and [[regolith]], if harvested and processed, may cut down on the supplies required from earth.<br />
Chemistry as a means of ISRU and Manufacturing.<br />
*Chemistry will allow us to reduce lunar minerals into raw materials and finished products.<br />
**Examples:<br />
***From [[Ilmenite]] to [[oxygen]] via [[ilmenite reduction]].<br />
***From [[KREEP]] to [[potassium phosphate]] fertilizer, [[Nuclear Fission|nuclear fuel]], and a variety of useful metals ([[Rare Earth Elements]]).<br />
Biochemistry as a means of ISRU and Manufacturing.<br />
*Biochemistry will allow us to process and utilize our own biological waste as well as make use of other organisms.<br />
**Examples:<br />
***[[Ammonia]] fertilizer from [[urine]] and fecal fluids.<br />
***[[Beer]] in a sintered cup sheathed in [[soy]] plastic.<br />
<br />
==Mars Interests==<br />
More. MORE!<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
The knowledge, it fills me. It is NEAT....<br />
==Current Projects==<br />
*Earning a degree in Rocket Science!<br />
*Cataloging local insect pollinators which do not depend on magnetic fields for navigation<br />
:Postponed<br />
*Taming the spam in the Moon Society email system<br />
:Complete<br />
*[[Sintered Regolith]] article<br />
:Complete<br />
*A brochure to accompany an upcoming portable [[Solar Power Satellites|Solar Power Satellite]] demonstrator that will be operated by the [http://moonsociety.org/ Moon Society].<br />
:Complete<br />
*the [http://groups.myspace.com/lunarbase Lunar Base] discussion group on MySpace.com<br />
*testing subpage: [[/edits]]<br />
*Adapting [[Geologic Processes on the Moon]] to Lunarpedia.<br />
:Complete<br />
*Constructing a vertical shaft wind turbine w/ 12 volt DC generator from scrap junk.<br />
*Comprehensive supplementary study of Ansi C.<br />
<br />
<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
email/AIM - jarogers2001 (the_at-symbol) aim (period) com</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User:Nelson_Thompson&diff=15407User:Nelson Thompson2009-11-26T02:30:44Z<p>Jarogers2001: Creating user page with biography of new user.</p>
<hr />
<div>Built my own reflecting telescopes at age 16, including grinding and polishing the mirrors. Got a BS degree in Physics. Two years graduate school, majoring in Computer Science. Worked for Texas Instruments for five years. Moved to Houston, Texas, and began working on NASA projects. Developed custom compiler for the Space Shuttle Simulators. Designed software command and control system for the Space Station. Now analyzing the safety and reliability of aerospace computer software systems. Main hobby is still space science and astronomy.</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Nelson_Thompson&diff=15408User talk:Nelson Thompson2009-11-26T02:30:44Z<p>Jarogers2001: Welcome!</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Welcome to ''Lunarpedia''!'''<br />
We hope you will contribute much and well. <br />
You will probably want to read the [[Help:Contents|help pages]].<br />
Again, welcome and have fun! [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 02:30, 26 November 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Jassim_Bucheeri&diff=15406User talk:Jassim Bucheeri2009-11-26T02:18:19Z<p>Jarogers2001: Welcome!</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Welcome to ''Lunarpedia''!'''<br />
We hope you will contribute much and well. <br />
You will probably want to read the [[Help:Contents|help pages]].<br />
Again, welcome and have fun! [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 02:18, 26 November 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User:Jassim_Bucheeri&diff=15405User:Jassim Bucheeri2009-11-26T02:18:18Z<p>Jarogers2001: Creating user page with biography of new user.</p>
<hr />
<div>Hi my background is advertising, computers & software engineering and a little space science. I'm very interested in getting mankind off this planet I would like to see us properly setup on the moon before I die. I'm here to help out as much as possible. Since my biography has to be so long, I'm just going to add some extra words at the end of this sentence they could include anything I think of.</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Periodic_Table_of_the_Elements&diff=15271Periodic Table of the Elements2009-08-03T16:57:09Z<p>Jarogers2001: New name chosen for element 113: Copernicium</p>
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<div><!-- This table is un-finished. Editing in Progress<br />
<br />
Periodic Table of the Elements<br />
<br />
<center>←<sub>Group</sub>→</center><br />
--><!-- #<br><center>'''[[#]]'''</center><br />
U+2622<br />
&#9762 <br />
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<br />
{|<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 1<br />
|<br />
| COLSPAN="10" | <CENTER>'''Periodic Table of the Elements'''</CENTER><br />
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| <sub>Period</sub><br>↓<br />
|-<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#3399FF" | 1<br><center>'''[[Hydrogen|H]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 2<br />
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| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 13<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 14<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 15<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 16<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 17<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#BF5F1F" | 2<br><center>'''[[Helium|<FONT color="#0000BF">He</FONT>]]'''</center><br />
| 1<br />
|----<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:green" | 3<br><center>'''[[Lithium|Li]]'''</center><br />
<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:orange" | 4<br><center>'''[[Beryllium|Be]]'''</center><br />
| COLSPAN="10" | <center>←<small>Group</small>→</center><br />
<!-- |<br />
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| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#CCCCCC" | <FONT color="#000000">5</FONT><br><center>'''[[Boron|B]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#3399FF" | 6<br><center>'''[[Carbon|C]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#3399FF" | 7<br><center>'''[[Nitrogen|N]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#3399FF" | 8<br><center>'''[[Oxygen|O]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:black;background:pink" | 9<br><center>'''[[Fluorine|F]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#BF5F1F" | 10<br><center>'''[[Neon|Ne]]'''</center><br />
| 2<br />
|-<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:green" | 11<br><center>'''[[Sodium|Na]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:orange" | 12<br><center>'''[[Magnesium|Mg]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 3<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 4<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 5<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 6<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 7<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 8<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 9<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 10<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 11<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | 12<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#666666" | 13<br><center>'''[[Aluminum|Al]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#CCCCCC" | <FONT color="#000000">14</FONT><br><center>'''[[Silicon|Si]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#3399FF" | 15<br><center>'''[[Phosphorus|P]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#3399FF" | 16<br><center>'''[[Sulfur|S]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:black;background:pink" | 17<br><center>'''[[Chlorine|Cl]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#BF5F1F" | 18<br><center>'''[[Argon|<FONT color="#0000BF">Ar</FONT>]]'''</center><br />
| 3<br />
|-<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:green" | 19<br><center>'''[[Sodium|K]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:orange" | 20<br><center>'''[[Calcium|Ca]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 21<br><center>'''[[Scandium|Sc]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 22<br><center>'''[[Titanium|Ti]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 23<br><center>'''[[Vanadium|V]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 24<br><center>'''[[Chromium|Cr]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 25<br><center>'''[[Manganese|Mn]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 26<br><center>'''[[Iron|Fe]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 27<br><center>'''[[Cobalt|Co]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 28<br><center>'''[[Nickel|Ni]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 29<br><center>'''[[Copper|Cu]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 30<br><center>'''[[Zinc|Zn]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#666666" | 31<br><center>'''[[Gallium|Ga]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#CCCCCC" | <FONT color="#000000">32</FONT><br><center>'''[[Germanium|Ge]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#CCCCCC" | <FONT color="#000000">33</FONT><br><center>'''[[Arsenic|As]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#3399FF" | 34<br><center>'''[[Selenium|Se]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:black;background:pink" | 35[[Image:Liquid_element.GIF]]<br><center>'''[[Bromine|Br]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#BF5F1F" | 36<br><center>'''[[Krypton|<FONT color="#0000BF">Kr</FONT>]]'''</center><br />
| 4<br />
|-<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:green" | 37<br><center>'''[[Rubidium|Rb]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:orange" | 38<br><center>'''[[Strontium|Sr]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 39<br><center>'''[[Yttrium|Y]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 40<br><center>'''[[Zirconium|Zr]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 41<br><center>'''[[Niobium|Nb]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 42<br><center>'''[[Molybdenum|Mo]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 43 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Technetium|Tc]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 44<br><center>'''[[Ruthenium|Ru]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 45<br><center>'''[[Rhodium|Rh]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 46<br><center>'''[[Palladium|Pd]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 47<br><center>'''[[Silver|Ag]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 48<br><center>'''[[Cadmium|Cd]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#666666" | 49<br><center>'''[[Indium|In]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#666666" | 50<br><center>'''[[Tin|Sn]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#CCCCCC" | <FONT color="#000000">51</FONT><br><center>'''[[Antimony|Sb]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#CCCCCC" | <FONT color="#000000">52</FONT><br><center>'''[[Tellurium|Te]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:mlack;background:pink" | 53<br><center>'''[[Iodine|I]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#BF5F1F" | 54<br><center>'''[[Xenon|<FONT color="#0000BF">Xe</FONT>]]'''</center><br />
| 5<br />
|-<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:green" | 55<br><center>'''[[Cesium|Cs]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:orange" | 56<br><center>'''[[Barium|Ba]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 57<br><center>'''[[Lanthanum|La]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 72<br><center>'''[[Hafnium|Hf]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 73<br><center>'''[[Tantalum|Ta]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 74<br><center>'''[[Tungsten|W]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 75<br><center>'''[[Rhenium|Re]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 76<br><center>'''[[Osmium|Os]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 77<br><center>'''[[Iridium|Ir]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 78<br><center>'''[[Platinum|Pt]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 79<br><center>'''[[Gold|Au]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 80[[Image:Liquid_element.GIF]]<br><center>'''[[Mercury_(Element)|Hg]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#666666" | 81<br><center>'''[[Thallium|Tl]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#666666" | 82<br><center>'''[[Lead|Pb]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#666666" | 83 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Gray.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Bismuth|Bi]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#CCCCCC" | <FONT color="#000000">84</FONT> [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Polonium|Po]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:black;background:pink" | 85 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Astatine|At]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#BF5F1F" | 86 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Radon|<FONT color="#0000BF">Rn</FONT>]]'''</center><br />
| 6<br />
|-<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:green" | 87 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Francium|Fr]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:orange" | 88 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Radium|Ra]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 89 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Actinium|Ac]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 104 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Rutherfordium|Rf]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 105 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Dubnium|Db]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 106 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Seaborgium|Sg]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 107 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Bohrium|Bh]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 108 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Hassium|Hs]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 109 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Meitnerium|Mt]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 110 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Darmstadtium|Ds]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 111 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Roentgenium|Rg]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:black" | 112[[Image:Liquid_element.GIF]] [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Copernicium|Cp]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#666666" | 113 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Ununtrium|Uut]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#666666" | 114 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Ununquadium|Uuq]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#666666" | 115 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Ununpentium|Uup]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#666666" | 116 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Ununhexium|Uuh]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:black;background:pink" | <!-- 117 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Ununseptium|Uus]]'''</center> --> <br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#BF5F1F" | 118 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Ununoctium|<FONT color="#0000BF">Uuo</FONT>]]'''</center><br />
| 7<br />
|-<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:green" | <sub>Alkali Metal</sub><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:orange" | <sub>Alka- line Earth Metal</sub><br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:black;background:pink" | <sub>Halo- gens</sub><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#BF5F1F" | <sub>Noble Gas</sub><br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | <sub>Lanth- anide Series</sub><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 58 <br><center>'''[[Cerium|Ce]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 59 <br><center>'''[[Praseodymium|Pr]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 60 <br><center>'''[[Neodymium|Nd]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 61 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Promethium|Pm]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 62 <br><center>'''[[Samarium|Sm]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 63 <br><center>'''[[Europium|Eu]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 64 <br><center>'''[[Gadolinium|Gd]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 65 <br><center>'''[[Terbium|Tb]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 66 <br><center>'''[[Dysprosium|Dy]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 67 <br><center>'''[[Holmium|Ho]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 68 <br><center>'''[[Erbium|Er]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 69 <br><center>'''[[Thulium|Tm]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 70 <br><center>'''[[Ytterbium|Yb]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 71 <br><center>'''[[Lutetium|Lu]]'''</center><br />
| 6<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|<br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;" | <sub>Actin- ide Series</sub><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 90 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Gray.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Thorium|Th]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 91 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Protactinium|Pa]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 92 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Gray.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Uranium|U]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 93 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Neptunium|Np]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 94 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Plutonium|Pu]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 95 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Americium|Am]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 96 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Curium|Cm]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 97 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Berkelium|Bk]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 98 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Californium|Cf]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 99 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Einsteinium|Es]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 100 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Fermium|Fm]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 101 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Mendelevium|Md]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 102 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Nobelium|No]]'''</center><br />
| STYLE="width:.5in;height:.5in;color:white;background:#009966" | 103 [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br><center>'''[[Lawrencium|Lr]]'''</center><br />
| 7<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Color Key<br />
{|<br />
!<br />
!Classification<br />
!<br />
!<!-- To be added--><br />
!<br />
!Radioactivity<br />
|-<br />
<br />
| STYLE="width:.25in;height:.25in;color:white;background:green" |<br />
| [[Alkali Metals]]<br />
<br />
| | <!--(bordered cell)--><br />
| <!--(border info)--><br />
<br />
| [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Gray.PNG]]<br />
| Long-lived radioactive isotope but no stable isotopes<!--Radiation Info--><br />
|-<br />
<br />
| STYLE="width:.25in;height:.25in;color:white;background:orange" |<br />
| [[Alkaline Earth Metals]]<br />
<br />
| | <!--(bordered cell)--><br />
| <!--(border info)--><br />
<br />
| [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol.PNG]]<br />
| No stable isotopes<!--Radiation Info--><br />
|-<br />
<br />
| STYLE="width:.25in;height:.25in;color:white;background:black" |<br />
| [[Transition Metals]]<br />
<br />
| | <!--(bordered cell)--><br />
| <!--(border info)--><br />
<br />
| [[Image:Tiny_Radioactive_Symbol_Lime.PNG]]<br />
| Longest known half-life is under 24 hours<!--Radiation Info--><br />
|-<br />
<br />
| STYLE="width:.25in;height:.25in;color:white;background:#009966" | <br />
| [[Rare Earth Elements]]<br />
<br />
| | <!--(bordered cell)--><br />
| <!--(border info)--><br />
<br />
| | <!--(bordered cell)--><br />
| <!--(border info)--><br />
|-<br />
<br />
| STYLE="width:.25in;height:.25in;color:white;background:#666666" | <br />
| [[Other Metals]]<br />
<br />
| | <!--(bordered cell)--><br />
| <!--(border info)--><br />
<br />
| | <!--(bordered cell)--><br />
| <!--(border info)--><br />
|-<br />
<br />
| STYLE="width:.25in;height:.25in;color:white;background:#CCCCCC" |<br />
| [[Metalloids]]<br />
|-<br />
| STYLE="width:.25in;height:.25in;color:white;background:#3399FF" |<br />
| [[Non-metals]]<br />
|-<br />
| STYLE="width:.25in;height:.25in;color:white;background:pink" |<br />
| [[Halogens]]<br />
|-<br />
| STYLE="width:.25in;height:.25in;color:white;background:#BF5F1F" |<br />
| [[Noble Gases]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:Liquid_element.GIF]] <br />
| Liquid at room temperature<br />
|-<br />
<br />
<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==List of Naturally Occurring Elements==<br />
<br />
[[Actinum]]<BR><br />
[[Aluminum]]<BR><br />
[[Antimony]]<BR><br />
[[Argon]]<BR><br />
[[Arsenic]]<BR><br />
[[Astatine]]<BR><br />
[[Barium]]<BR><br />
[[Beryllium]]<BR><br />
[[Bismuth]]<BR><br />
[[Boron]]<BR><br />
[[Bromine]]<BR><br />
[[Cadmium]]<BR><br />
[[Caesium]]<BR><br />
[[Calcium]]<BR><br />
[[Carbon]]<BR><br />
[[Cerium]]<BR><br />
[[Chlorine]]<BR><br />
[[Chromium]]<BR><br />
[[Cobalt]]<BR><br />
[[Copper]]<BR><br />
[[Dysprosium]]<BR><br />
[[Erbium]]<BR><br />
[[Europium]]<BR><br />
[[Fluorine]]<BR><br />
[[Francium]]<BR><br />
[[Gadolinium]]<BR><br />
[[Gallium]]<BR><br />
[[Germanium]]<BR><br />
[[Gold]]<BR><br />
[[Hafnium]]<BR><br />
[[Helium]]<BR><br />
[[Holmium]]<BR><br />
[[Hydrogen]]<BR><br />
[[Indium]]<BR><br />
[[Iodine]]<BR><br />
[[Iridium]]<BR><br />
[[Iron]]<BR><br />
[[Krypton]]<BR><br />
[[Lanthanum]]<BR><br />
[[Lead]]<BR><br />
[[Lithium]]<BR><br />
[[Lutetium]]<BR><br />
[[Magnesium]]<BR><br />
[[Manganese]]<BR><br />
[[Mercury_(Element)|Mercury]]<BR><br />
[[Molybdenum]]<BR><br />
[[Neodymium]]<BR><br />
[[Neon]]<BR><br />
[[Nickel]]<BR><br />
[[Niobium]]<BR><br />
[[Nitrogen]]<BR><br />
[[Osmium]]<BR><br />
[[Oxygen]]<BR><br />
[[Palladium]]<BR><br />
[[Phosphorus]]<BR><br />
[[Platinum]]<BR><br />
[[Polonium]]<BR><br />
[[Potassium]]<BR><br />
[[Praseodymium]]<BR><br />
[[Promethium]]<BR><br />
[[Protactinium]]<BR><br />
[[Radium]]<BR><br />
[[Radon]]<BR><br />
[[Rhenium]]<BR><br />
[[Rhodium]]<BR><br />
[[Rubidium]]<BR><br />
[[Ruthenium]]<BR><br />
[[Samarium]]<BR><br />
[[Scandium]]<BR><br />
[[Selenium]]<BR><br />
[[Silicon]]<BR><br />
[[Silver]]<BR><br />
[[Strontium]]<BR><br />
[[Sulphur]]<BR><br />
[[Tantalum]]<BR><br />
[[Technetium]]<BR><br />
[[Tellurium]]<BR><br />
[[Terbium]]<BR><br />
[[Thallium]]<BR><br />
[[Thorium]]<BR><br />
[[Thulium]]<BR><br />
[[Tin]]<BR><br />
[[Titanium]]<BR><br />
[[Tungsten]]<BR><br />
[[Uranium]]<BR><br />
[[Vanadium]]<BR><br />
[[Xenon]]<BR><br />
[[Ytterbium]]<BR><br />
[[Yttrium]]<BR><br />
[[Zinc]]<BR><br />
[[Zirconium]]<BR><br />
<br />
==Artificial Elements==<br />
<br />
[[Americium]]<BR><br />
[[Berkelium]]<BR><br />
[[Bohrium]]<BR><br />
[[Californium]]<BR><br />
[[Curium]]<BR><br />
[[Darmstadtium]]<BR><br />
[[Dubnium]]<BR><br />
[[Einsteinium]]<BR><br />
[[Fermium]]<BR><br />
[[Hassium]]<BR><br />
[[Lawrencium]]<BR><br />
[[Meitnerium]]<BR><br />
[[Mendelevium]]<BR><br />
[[Nobelium]]<BR><br />
[[Neptunium]]<BR><br />
[[Plutonium]]<BR><br />
[[Roentgenium]]<BR><br />
[[Rutherfordium]]<BR><br />
[[Seaborgium]]<BR><br />
[[Ununbium]]<BR><br />
[[Ununtrium]]<BR><br />
[[Ununquadium]]<BR><br />
[[Ununpentium]]<BR><br />
[[Ununhexium]]<BR><br />
[[Ununseptium]]<BR><br />
[[Ununoctium]]<BR><br />
<br />
==Related Articles==<br />
*[[GFDL:Goldschmidt classification|Goldschmidt classification]] -- Identification of Lithophiles, Siderophiles, Chalcophiles, and Atmophiles<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Chemistry]]<br />
[[Category:Elements]]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Copernicium&diff=15270Copernicium2009-08-03T16:54:22Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Element |<br />
name=Copernicium |<br />
symbol=Cp |<br />
available=unavailable |<br />
need= |<br />
number=112 |<br />
mass=[277] |<br />
group=12 |<br />
period=7 |<br />
phase= |<br />
series=Transition Metals |<br />
density= |<br />
melts= |<br />
boils= |<br />
isotopes=none |<br />
prior=[[Roentgenium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Rg</FONT>]] |<br />
next=[[Ununtrium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Uut</FONT>]] |<br />
above=[[Mercury_(Element)|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Hg</FONT>]] |<br />
aprior=[[Gold|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Au</FONT>]] |<br />
anext=[[Thallium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Tl</FONT>]] |<br />
below=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
bprior=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
bnext=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
radius= |<br />
bohr= |<br />
covalent= |<br />
vdwr= |<br />
irad= |<br />
ipot= |<br />
econfig=1s<sup>2</sup> <br/>2s<sup>2</sup> 2p<sup>6</sup> <br/>3s<sup>2</sup> 3p<sup>6</sup> 3d<sup>10</sup> <br/>4s<sup>2</sup> 4p<sup>6</sup> 4d<sup>10</sup> 4f<sup>14</sup> <br/>5s<sup>2</sup> 5p<sup>6</sup> 5d<sup>10</sup> 5f<sup>14</sup> <br/>6s<sup>2</sup> 6p<sup>6</sup> 6d<sup>10</sup> <br/>7s<sup>2</sup> |<br />
eshell= |<br />
enega= |<br />
eaffin= |<br />
oxstat= |<br />
magn= |<br />
cryst= |<br />
}}<br />
'''Copernicium''' (previously '''Ununbium''') is a Transition Metal in group 12.<br />
It does not have any isotopes considered to be natural. Its longest-lived known isotope has an atomic number of 277. <br />
This element has no stable isotopes. <br />
<BR/><BR/><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Autostub}}<br />
[[Category:Transition Metals ]]<br />
<br />
<!-- Generated by a gamma candidate version of Autostub2 (Test 9) --></div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Copernicium&diff=15268Copernicium2009-08-03T16:52:14Z<p>Jarogers2001: moved Ununbium to Copernicium</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Element |<br />
name=Ununbium |<br />
symbol=Uub |<br />
available=unavailable |<br />
need= |<br />
number=112 |<br />
mass=[277] |<br />
group=12 |<br />
period=7 |<br />
phase= |<br />
series=Transition Metals |<br />
density= |<br />
melts= |<br />
boils= |<br />
isotopes=none |<br />
prior=[[Roentgenium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Rg</FONT>]] |<br />
next=[[Ununtrium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Uut</FONT>]] |<br />
above=[[Mercury_(Element)|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Hg</FONT>]] |<br />
aprior=[[Gold|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Au</FONT>]] |<br />
anext=[[Thallium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Tl</FONT>]] |<br />
below=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
bprior=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
bnext=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
radius= |<br />
bohr= |<br />
covalent= |<br />
vdwr= |<br />
irad= |<br />
ipot= |<br />
econfig=1s<sup>2</sup> <br/>2s<sup>2</sup> 2p<sup>6</sup> <br/>3s<sup>2</sup> 3p<sup>6</sup> 3d<sup>10</sup> <br/>4s<sup>2</sup> 4p<sup>6</sup> 4d<sup>10</sup> 4f<sup>14</sup> <br/>5s<sup>2</sup> 5p<sup>6</sup> 5d<sup>10</sup> 5f<sup>14</sup> <br/>6s<sup>2</sup> 6p<sup>6</sup> 6d<sup>10</sup> <br/>7s<sup>2</sup> |<br />
eshell= |<br />
enega= |<br />
eaffin= |<br />
oxstat= |<br />
magn= |<br />
cryst= |<br />
}}<br />
'''Ununbium''' is a Transition Metal in group 12.<br />
It does not have any isotopes considered to be natural. Its longest-lived known isotope has an atomic number of 277. <br />
This element has no stable isotopes. <br />
<BR/><BR/><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Autostub}}<br />
[[Category:Transition Metals ]]<br />
<br />
<!-- Generated by a gamma candidate version of Autostub2 (Test 9) --></div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:People_on_the_Moon&diff=15023Talk:People on the Moon2009-03-05T06:00:57Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Hmmm.... */</p>
<hr />
<div>This page was originally written to develop characters for stories about lunar settlement. I have written about 5 of these stories to date. They are now at:<br />
<br />
[http://charm.net/~jriley/cgi/wiki.cgi?BttMwStoryIndex Back to the Moon wiki Story Index]<br />
<br />
I would be interested in moving them to Lunarpedia as part of a major addition to actively and aggressively build a vision of success in the American public for the return to the moon.<br />
<br />
[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 04:41, 3 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
==Tourists==<br />
<br />
Why are these transitions prohibited?<br />
<br />
*Tourist to miner (not properly trained) <br />
<br />
Why not train the tourist? The tourist will need quite a lot of training before they will be allowed to fly to the Moon, just like tourists to space today. The additional training to become a miner would seem simple enough.<br />
<br />
In the interim, the tourist would have more than enough training to support himself/herself working in a retail outlet. This paragraph only [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]]<br />
<br />
::It seems to me like you're looking a little far off in the future. Miner's will be trained specifically to service the Mining equipment which will probably be complex robotic contraptions that one does not figure out over night. Plus, I don't think retail establishments will be opening on the moon for a very long time. Miners will be the first permanent residents and probably the only permanent residents for thirty years or so until they've constructed sufficient habitats to support settlers.<br />
::--[[User:TAlexander|TAlexander]] 19:22, 12 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*Tourist to settler (wait your turn like everybody else, seen as trying to buy your way into the program) <br />
<br />
::This transition seems a lot more plausible, but it seems like couples would be the ideal settlers, so unless your visiting the moon with your significant other (what a date!) they probably wouldn't let you stay.<br />
::--[[User:TAlexander|TAlexander]] 19:22, 12 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
What is wrong with buying your way into the program? That is basically what the toursts are already doing. They would be just staying permanently instead of returning to Earth. If they have the money to pay for it, why not establish retirement community on the Moon for example, such communities exist all over the Earth. People live and work in one country, then retire in a different country. What is wrong with the Moon as a retirement destination?[[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]] 06:42, 3 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
First the various groups will probably hate each other's guts. A tourist who bought his or her way to the Moon and then descided they wanted to stay would certainly be dispised by all the people who spend years of worry and training just to get there.<br />
<br />
It will take a lot of community resources to support each person in the settlement. Just buying a week as a tourist does not mean you are paying for anything like the cost of perminate lodging. Retiring to the Moon is completely seperate consideration<br />
<br />
There would be no restriction a tourist returing to the Earth and appling like everybody else.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 03:47, 10 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Indeed the various groups will probably hate each other's guts. But you know, it doesn't take a huge amount of extra training for a tourist to learn how to say "Would you like fries with that?"<br />
<br />
:Yes, if a tourist wants to become a miner s/he'll need more training, but if s/he just wants to live and work on the Moon why stop him/her from taking on indoor jobs. In addition, these indoor jobs could help offset the cost of training for other jobs. A sort of "work your way through college" scheme. We will need shopkeepers and waiters and cooks and chefs and cleaners and bartenders etc.<br><br />
:-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 18:28, 8 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Licence ambiguity==<br />
There is no '''''CC_People''''' namespace. By moving it there you actually moved it into the public domain main namespace. As I'm doubting this was your intent I moved it here until the terms under which it is to be made available are clarified. <br />
<br />
What could be done to clarify the namespace formatting, especially for the next time when the next person may accidentally move something into public domain and not have the situation caught in time to prevent someone using it as a public domain resource? -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 06:49, 3 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Sorry, this was a only low-on-the-learning-curve editing mistake.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 03:52, 10 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I would volenteer to be a lunar miner in a New York minute.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 03:51, 10 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
==Transitions==<br />
A brief summary of issues with this section.<br />
*Requiring that older male miners have vasectomies?<br />
::No one would agree to such a proposal. It is a violation of individual rights. People move to a frontier to find more freedom, not to have it taken away. I can understand vasectomies in order to avoid mutations, but this is a dangerous precedent. Once these are set society tends to keep going in a very bad way. The result may very well be a new underclass of the elderly or continued precedents leading to the rise of ingrained fascist ideology and/or stripping settlers of their individual rights. This proposal could stifle the expansion of lunar settlement and the importation of needed laborers.<br />
*Requiring that all miners be older men and women past the prime of fertility?<br />
::Older people shipped off to the mines? Sure they could be in roving miners, but where would they go on the moon? It would be a prison without walls. Denying young people available jobs? Riots and protests are never a happy experience. Look at what happened in France.<br />
*Limiting Transitions - in General<br />
::The idea that people would lose their freedom of choice when it comes to how they live their lives and pursue their careers, or have their choices limited in such a way has many issues, some of which I will discuss. I want to live in a free market where my qualifications speak for themselves and my career path is not limited by a set of arbitrary rules and protocols. These rules would severely limit the creation of small businesses and stifle opportunities for individual entrepreneurship that do not lie in a person's pre-set career path. They would also limit a person's opportunities to change career in order to support himself, his family, or his way of life in the presence of market/price fluctuations for the goods and/or services that he currently provides, or in the cases of layoffs at his current employer or an entire company going under. Such an event will saturate the labor market for many specialties depending on the company. The only ways to avoid the problem of labor market saturation is to rely on state run enterprises creating more government jobs in that specialty (which would saturate the market for the goods it provides and lead to more business failures), funding public works projects (this would only help some specialties), or begin an individual relief program (ie: welfare, goods vouchers used in communist countries). Such a course would open up an even larger can of worms than the one created by these rules in the first place (ie: taxation destroying an already slim profit margin and resulting in loss of private enterprise).<br />
<br />
Thoughts/Feedback?<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 23:36, 27 March 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
The line to volunteer for a one way trip to the Moon, under any agreement, will be out the door and around the block. The infertile requirement will dissuade very few volunteers.<br />
<br />
This miner definition comes directly from Harrison Schmitt's book, "Return to the Moon".<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 05:18, 28 March 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
On the contrary.<br><br />
<br />
* 1. Telling anyone that they will lose their freedom of reproductive choice will not go over well at all, not since Nazi Germany set that particular precedent in their efforts to both create a master race and suppress unwanted elements of their society.<br />
:: A. In our efforts to colonize the moon we must consider the mentality of the generations that will live to accomplish it. It goes against our culture. Rational, smart, ambitious young people of my generation and the ones that follow will never actually agree to this kind of requirement. See part 2.<br />
:: B. Something that seems to be overlooked by Mr. Schmitt is that enforcing this idea is a violation of human rights. Any company practicing it will come under heavy political flak resulting in very bad publicity and severe loss of profits.<br />
:::We can't rely on NASA to colonize the moon. We've already tried that and NASA failed to meet expectations for 30 years (thanks to washington). We have little choice but to rely on private enterprise to get the job done, and no private company will have anything to do with this kind of public relations nightmare.<br />
* 2. Even if people are required to sign an agreement before they ship out, enforcement of the agreement becomes a problem. If there were a doctor offering free vasectomies I would be the first in line to get snipped. But.. and it's a big BUT. If someone tried to tell me I didn't have a choice, I would instigate an armed and bloody rebellion without even blinking an eye. I doubt I am the only person that would do so.<br />
:: A. You could try to filter strong individualists out using psychological evaluations, but fooling those evaluations is easy. One simply lies.<br />
:: B. Enthusiasm for space travel and colonization has bottomed out among younger generations, including my own. By the time settlement begins, the majority of those who were alive during the days of the Apollo program and share the enthusiasm for space common during those times will no longer pass a basic physical. We're talking younger generations<br />
:::The quantity of these younger people expected to volunteer for a one way trip to a hostile environment with unknown physiological repercussions where survival is not guaranteed, career advancement is limited and/or not guaranteed, and pay is not likely to be competitive with earth markets offering less risk, is usually overestimated. Often grossly so.<br />
<br />
[[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 11:20, 28 March 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
==We must look beyond NASA and/or the very early days of settlement.==<br />
<br />
::'''In fact, our current "space exploration" mindset needs to be changed beyond recognition'''<br><br><br />
<br />
::When you get to a settlement size of about 100+ in a small lava tube, you will begin to see very un-NASAlike changes in the way things operate. By the time that settlement has a population of about 1000 it'll be a small town, with shops and stores and restaurants and people who really aren't required to do much more than say "Would you like fries with that?"<br><br><br />
<br />
::''The figures above are purely arbitrary as I have no idea at what level economies of scale will kick in nor do I know what the population critical mass will be.''<br><br><br />
<br />
::Are you trying to tell me that someone who'll live in the equivalent of a hotel room inside a lava tube and mostly only go to the office or communal areas and only ever venture outside in a tour bus needs special training?<br><br><br />
<br />
::Yes, sure they need training so they know what to do in an emergency, but not much more than any ordinary crew member on an ocean liner. Yes they'll benefit from some zero g experience for the flight there, but since they wont actually be flying spaceships or doing EVAs they wont need anything like the level of training given to NASA astronauts today.<br><br><br />
<br />
::Additionally, these people will be going there on contracts for months or years at a time, they'll be able to benefit from just having a familiarization and training week (or two) on Luna before working. It's not like they're going on a 14 day closed ended mission.<br><br><br />
<br />
[[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 21:00, 28 March 2007 (BST)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I have a student working on lunar settlement economic ideas. We should have a list of business plan summaries by early June. If you have ideas for this list email me.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 12:26, 8 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would suggest looking closely at [http://spacelogistics.mit.edu/ MIT Space Logistics Project] in addition to any other research. (Even if it is somewhat NASA centric)<br />
<br />
:Balance of trade will be important, so Lunar settlements need to produce something that can be sold to Earth at a price that permits them to maintain their needed import levels.<br />
<br />
:On the other hand some sort of Lunar agriculture will be vital. I'm one of the people who believes any Lunar colony will be destined to failure if it cannot import or produce enough food to act as say a 30 day buffer. Launch windows can sometimes be missed due to bad weather. We can't have a settlement starving to death because of that.<br />
<br />
:-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 19:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Moved one-sided box to Miners ==<br />
<br />
I do not think having two boxes at the top of the article works at all.<br />
<br />
The problem area seems to be miners as mules (not reproductive). I think one of the boxes should go there. Perhaps the boxes should be swapped.<br />
<br />
The mule idea is driven by the likelihood that a lunar settlement simply will not have the infrastructure needed to support children for some time (see [[Timelines]]). It is simply a practical necessity. Hopefully the settlement will be able to support families of settlers within a decade or two. <br />
<br />
Generally, I do not much like the one-sided box. If a person thinks an entry is one-sided, he should simply add a paragraph stating the alternative idea.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 12:22, 8 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:No, the problem is the whole article is biased towards one particular NASA and socio-political centric view of how the moon is going to operate. It was in fact you addition of Shop Stewards that was the last straw.<br />
<br />
:If you're going to add Shop Stewards, then you need to include people other than Officer-Class managers like Scientist, Chief Security Officer, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Instructor, Lunar Operations Supervisor, Information Technologist (IT), Tour Guides.<br />
<br />
:Where the hell are the cooks and chefs and waiters and cleaners? What about the Suit Repair people, how about the mechanics and the all important Building Engineers without whom the base would grind to a halt.<br />
<br />
:Then there's the bartenders and the show girls. The list is almost infinite<br />
<br />
:Please do not move tags like that unless you have actually complied with them. If you move it again I'll lock the article so only sysops can edit it.<br />
<br />
:The idea of the One Sided box is to make it known that it's seen as such and to invite input. Though you say you invite input, you have a tendency to ignore or delete such input, and your articles are generally not structured in a way that makes it obvious that input is invited. <br />
<br />
:In effect, your articles read like Lunarpedia Position Papers, and there are a few more people in Lunarpedia than you, though the amount of actual contributions would seem to belie that.<br />
<br />
:Please re-read [[Main_Page#No_Need_to_be_Neutral]] as it now shows how to add <nowiki>{{PersPosArticle}} and {{PersPosSection}}</nowiki> tags.<br />
<br />
: -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 17:37, 8 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
My postings have '''not''' supported NASA visions nearly so much as Harrison Schmitt’s vision. I think it would be hard to find an article more critical of NASA’s approach than [[Adult Themes]].<br />
<br />
I would have no problem with dozens of more job descriptions in the list. The technician’s positions need particular attention. The Union Steward entry comes from a conflict between the [[Lunar Bill of Rights]] and the need to raise massive amounts of capital. On the one hand, the right to free assembly includes the right to form a union. On the other hand, the specter of a crippling mining strike could block investment.<br />
<br />
Encouraging written participation is a major problem. The limited Wiki editor is restrictive. The recent advances in form and style have helped. Technical people as a group are not word people and write neither well nor easily. My approach so far has been to try a large number of ideas to find something that works. This is the shotgun approach and I have about exhausted it.<br />
<br />
Can you provide an example of an article that you feel encourages participation?<br />
<br />
I am currently working on designing a student project on the economics of a Schmitt lunar settlement. There have been a number of discussion entries supporting the importance of economic considerations so I think this idea should support good participation. I would be happy to email you the current draft of the assignment so that you can have input before the first student starts work on May 28.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 12:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Ack, I need to remember to "Watch" pages once I post in them :)<br />
<br />
:Yes Adult Themes is counter to the NASA approach, indeed it's counter to the official government style in all western countries (though not counter to the behavior of many in government). In this particular article your whole structure so far is very much along NASA or military lines. While that may be the initial scenario for that first (most likely polar) base, it will not be the arrangement for most subsequent bases.<br />
<br />
:Harrison Schmitt’s vision is that of one man, who can really only say that he knows the Moon as well as it is possible to know it from 3 days on it and a lifetime studying it from Earth. Even his vast knowledge is only the tip of the iceberg, so we also need to examine other approaches. For instance: What can we get out of Mars Direct that could be applied to the Moon? Are there potential plans in any of the many Lunar Base books that have been published? <br />
<br />
:I'll try to add some more job descriptions as I think of them, but with ISDC coming up I seem to have lots to do and not enough people to help with any of it.<br />
<br />
:I have been planning to do something with the wiki editor, but that's on the back burner, I have to finish the upgrades to the Moon Society website first. We'd like to get it streamlined in time for ISDC.<br />
<br />
Can you provide an example of an article that you feel encourages participation?<br />
:I don't believe we have one that really answers that description yet. However I think our main problem is our relatively small user base. This will hopefully change after ISDC. But I'll see if I can find a boilerplate example somewhere. We may be one of the only groups using a public wiki in this manner though.<br />
<br />
:On the student project, I would love to see it, but I'm quite sure a couple of others would like to see it also, let me check something and get back to you on that.<br />
<br />
:-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 14:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Did I remember to mention ISDC?<br />
<br />
::-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 15:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I have the student assignment but do now know how to get it to you. It runs about seven pages. My email address is on my signiture page.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 21:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:You can email that to lunarpedia@moonsociety.org, just make sure to email it from the charm.net address on you give on your user page or it will bounce. lunarpedia@moonsociety.org is a very low traffic private email list that we used when we were setting up Lunarpedia. There are about 20 very useful subscribers whom I wont name here.<br />
<br />
:-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 02:45, 17 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Hmmm.... ==<br />
<br />
I hate to rain on the parade here, but this is bothering me. this entire article is fiction. there are few if any facts or allusions thereto anywhere. maybe this is a special type of article that is supposed to be that way, but if not, this is not at all in the spirit of Wikipedia. <br />
<br />
To be honest, I'm not even sure if it can be fixed. We are discussing events so far in the future that they almost certailnly cannot be substantiated. If it were up to me, I'd just erase the whole article. Maybe add a sentence in a lunar colonization article about how many different people will have to settle the moon. <br />
<br />
Again, I hate to be a jerk, but I don't know what else to do...<br />
<br />
::Who are you? - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 06:00, 5 March 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Space_Renaissance_Intiative&diff=15017Space Renaissance Intiative2009-02-28T21:04:22Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
<hr />
<div>Space Renaissance is a new, global philosophy, having its basic ground on Earth and its natural development in space.<br />
Our founding concepts are New Humanism and Astro Humanism. We look at the past Renaissance (1500) as an inspiration for patronage and capability to aim high, and to build successful projects by means of good will and mutual cooperation.<br />
<br />
The scope of SRI: <br />
* to build a Foundation for human expansion into the solar system<br />
* to build a school for graduate students and post-graduate doctorates and masters<br />
* to build the philosophy and the culture of the Space Age, to help the New Renaissance of Humanity in Space<br />
<br />
<br />
See also:<br />
*[http://www.spacerenaissance.org/ http://www.spacerenaissance.org/]<br />
*[http://www.tdf.it/ http://www.tdf.it/]<br />
*[http://www.spacefuture.com/ http://www.spacefuture.com/]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Space_Renaissance_Intiative&diff=15016Space Renaissance Intiative2009-02-28T21:03:43Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
<hr />
<div>Space Renaissance is a new, global philosophy, having its basic ground on Earth and its natural development in space.<br />
Our founding concepts are New Humanism and Astro Humanism. We look at the past Renaissance (1500) as an inspiration for patronage and capability to aim high, and to build successful projects by means of good will and mutual cooperation.<br />
<br />
Among our scopes: <br />
* to build a Foundation for human expansion into the solar system<br />
* to build a school for graduate students and post-graduate doctorates and masters<br />
* to build the philosophy and the culture of the Space Age, to help the New Renaissance of Humanity in Space<br />
<br />
<br />
See also:<br />
*[http://www.spacerenaissance.org/ http://www.spacerenaissance.org/]<br />
*[http://www.tdf.it/ http://www.tdf.it/]<br />
*[http://www.spacefuture.com/ http://www.spacefuture.com/]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Space_Renaissance_Intiative&diff=15015Space Renaissance Intiative2009-02-28T19:22:47Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
<hr />
<div>Space Renaissance is a new, global philosophy, having its basic ground on Earth and its natural development in space.<br />
Our founding concepts are New Humanism and Astro Humanism. We look at the past Renaissance (1500) as an inspiration for patronage and capability to aim high, and to build successful projects by means of good will and mutual cooperation.<br />
<br />
Among our scopes: <br />
* to build a Foundation for human expansion into the solar system<br />
* to build a school for graduate students and post-graduate doctorates and masters<br />
* to build the philosophy and the culture of the Space Age, to help the New Renaissance of Humanity in Space<br />
<br />
The statute is in progress, and will be soon submitted to all the good willing Terrestrians. <br />
<br />
See also:<br />
*[http://www.spacerenaissance.org/ http://www.spacerenaissance.org/]<br />
*[http://www.tdf.it/ http://www.tdf.it/]<br />
*[http://www.spacefuture.com/ http://www.spacefuture.com/]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User:Jarogers2001&diff=15001User:Jarogers20012009-02-06T06:39:44Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:JamesR.JPG|right|thumb|James Rogers]]<br />
<br />
{| style="align: right; float: right; border: 0px" cellspacing = 0<br />
|{{User Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Marsp Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Exd Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Sf Sysop}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Member}}<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''I'm a bit overwhelmed with assignments and will be going idle for a week or two during a coming round of tests. You can drop me a message on my User Talk page if you have any problems. I'll check it weekly. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 06:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)'''<br />
<br />
Public Relations<BR/><br />
The Moon Society<br />
<br />
<br />
Father of one.<BR/><br />
Gardener, chef, tinkerer, HAM Radio operator, amateur geologist (rock collector), Nerd and general handyman.<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
Callsign: KE5SGA<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
Currently enrolled in a University Transfer Program for Mathematics and Engineering.<BR/><br />
Prospective degree: Bachelor. Aerospace Engineering/Astronautix.<br />
==Lunar Interests==<br />
''If it is done every day down here, it can probably be done up there (with modifications)''<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
<br />
{| style="align: right; float: right; border: 0px" cellspacing = 0<br />
|{{User Non-domestic}}<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Human Waste Reclamation as a basis for Agriculture and Manufacturing.<br />
*Urine, feces, flakes of skin, toenails, hair, and other bodily fluids can provide a wealth of bio-materials with a minimum of processing. Reclamation of water is also necessary. Sounds disgusting, but we did it for thousands of years already.<br />
*Passive sterilization by exposure to outside radiation.<br />
Lunar Geology and Resources.<br />
*[[KREEP]], [[outgassing]], and [[regolith]], if harvested and processed, may cut down on the supplies required from earth.<br />
Chemistry as a means of ISRU and Manufacturing.<br />
*Chemistry will allow us to reduce lunar minerals into raw materials and finished products.<br />
**Examples:<br />
***From [[Ilmenite]] to [[oxygen]] via [[ilmenite reduction]].<br />
***From [[KREEP]] to [[potassium phosphate]] fertilizer, [[Nuclear Fission|nuclear fuel]], and a variety of useful metals ([[Rare Earth Elements]]).<br />
Biochemistry as a means of ISRU and Manufacturing.<br />
*Biochemistry will allow us to process and utilize our own biological waste as well as make use of other organisms.<br />
**Examples:<br />
***[[Ammonia]] fertilizer from [[urine]] and fecal fluids.<br />
***[[Beer]] in a sintered cup sheathed in [[soy]] plastic.<br />
<br />
==Mars Interests==<br />
More. MORE!<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
The knowledge, it fills me. It is NEAT....<br />
==Current Projects==<br />
*Earning a degree in Rocket Science!<br />
*Cataloging local insect pollinators which do not depend on magnetic fields for navigation<br />
:Postponed<br />
*Taming the spam in the Moon Society email system<br />
:Complete<br />
*[[Sintered Regolith]] article<br />
:Complete<br />
*A brochure to accompany an upcoming portable [[Solar Power Satellites|Solar Power Satellite]] demonstrator that will be operated by the [http://moonsociety.org/ Moon Society].<br />
:Complete<br />
*the [http://groups.myspace.com/lunarbase Lunar Base] discussion group on MySpace.com<br />
*testing subpage: [[/edits]]<br />
*Adapting [[Geologic Processes on the Moon]] to Lunarpedia.<br />
:Complete<br />
*Constructing a vertical shaft wind turbine w/ 12 volt DC generator from scrap junk.<br />
*Comprehensive supplementary study of Ansi C.<br />
<br />
<BR/><br />
<BR/><br />
email/AIM - jarogers2001 (the_at-symbol) aim (period) com</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Iridium&diff=14998Talk:Iridium2009-02-02T01:23:25Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Revert==<br />
Oops. didn't see the added links when I reverted to get rid of the remaining vandalism. Sorry about that. -- [[User:71.96.208.165|71.96.208.165]] 09:23, 31 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Easily fixed once I figured out what I was doing. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 01:23, 2 February 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Iridium&diff=14995Iridium2009-01-31T04:42:36Z<p>Jarogers2001: Manual revert.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Element |<br />
name=Iridium |<br />
symbol=Ir |<br />
available= |<br />
need= |<br />
number=77 |<br />
mass=192.217 |<br />
group=9 |<br />
period=6 |<br />
phase=Solid |<br />
series=Transition Metals |<br />
density=22.65 g/cm3 |<br />
melts=2719K,<BR/>2446°C,<BR/>4435°F |<br />
boils=4701K,<BR/>4428°C,<BR/>8002°F |<br />
isotopes=191<BR/>193 |<br />
prior=[[Osmium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Os</FONT>]] |<br />
next=[[Platinum|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Pt</FONT>]] |<br />
above=[[Rhodium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Rh</FONT>]] |<br />
aprior=[[Ruthenium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Ru</FONT>]] |<br />
anext=[[Palladium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Pd</FONT>]] |<br />
below=[[Meitnerium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Mt</FONT>]] |<br />
bprior=[[Hassium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Hs</FONT>]] |<br />
bnext=[[Darmstadtium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Ds</FONT>]] |<br />
radius=135 |<br />
bohr=180 |<br />
covalent=137 |<br />
vdwr= |<br />
irad=(+4) 63 |<br />
ipot=9.1 |<br />
econfig=1s<sup>2</sup> <br/>2s<sup>2</sup> 2p<sup>6</sup> <br/>3s<sup>2</sup> 3p<sup>6</sup> 3d<sup>10</sup> <br/>4s<sup>2</sup> 4p<sup>6</sup> 4d<sup>10</sup> 4f<sup>14</sup> <br/>5s<sup>2</sup> 5p<sup>6</sup> 5d<sup>7</sup> <br/>6s<sup>2</sup> |<br />
eshell=2, 8, 18, 32, 15, 2 |<br />
enega=2.2 |<br />
eaffin=1.57 |<br />
oxstat=2, 3, '''4''', 6 |<br />
magn=? |<br />
cryst=Face centered cubic |<br />
}}<br />
'''Iridium''' is a Transition Metal in group 9.<br />
It has a Face centered cubic crystalline structure.<br />
This element has two stable isotopes: 191 and 193. <br />
<BR/><BR/><br />
<br />
<br />
==Related Articles==<br />
*[[Platinum Group Metals]]<br />
*[[Ruthenium]]<br />
*[[Rhodium]]<br />
*[[Palladium]]<br />
*[[Osmium]]<br />
*[[Platinum]]<br />
*[[Resource Values]]<br />
*[[Periodic Table]]<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Autostub}}<br />
[[Category:Solids]]<br />
[[Category:Transition Metals ]]<br />
<br />
<!-- Generated by a gamma candidate version of Autostub2 (Test 9) --></div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Iridium&diff=14994Iridium2009-01-31T04:18:27Z<p>Jarogers2001: Restoring content</p>
<hr />
<div>trocgetbasa<br />
{{Element |<br />
name=Iridium |<br />
symbol=Ir |<br />
available= |<br />
need= |<br />
number=77 |<br />
mass=192.217 |<br />
group=9 |<br />
period=6 |<br />
phase=Solid |<br />
series=Transition Metals |<br />
density=22.65 g/cm3 |<br />
melts=2719K,<BR/>2446°C,<BR/>4435°F |<br />
boils=4701K,<BR/>4428°C,<BR/>8002°F |<br />
isotopes=191<BR/>193 |<br />
prior=[[Osmium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Os</FONT>]] |<br />
next=[[Platinum|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Pt</FONT>]] |<br />
above=[[Rhodium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Rh</FONT>]] |<br />
aprior=[[Ruthenium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Ru</FONT>]] |<br />
anext=[[Palladium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Pd</FONT>]] |<br />
below=[[Meitnerium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Mt</FONT>]] |<br />
bprior=[[Hassium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Hs</FONT>]] |<br />
bnext=[[Darmstadtium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Ds</FONT>]] |<br />
radius=135 |<br />
bohr=180 |<br />
covalent=137 |<br />
vdwr= |<br />
irad=(+4) 63 |<br />
ipot=9.1 |<br />
econfig=1s<sup>2</sup> <br/>2s<sup>2</sup> 2p<sup>6</sup> <br/>3s<sup>2</sup> 3p<sup>6</sup> 3d<sup>10</sup> <br/>4s<sup>2</sup> 4p<sup>6</sup> 4d<sup>10</sup> 4f<sup>14</sup> <br/>5s<sup>2</sup> 5p<sup>6</sup> 5d<sup>7</sup> <br/>6s<sup>2</sup> |<br />
eshell=2, 8, 18, 32, 15, 2 |<br />
enega=2.2 |<br />
eaffin=1.57 |<br />
oxstat=2, 3, '''4''', 6 |<br />
magn=? |<br />
cryst=Face centered cubic |<br />
}}<br />
'''Iridium''' is a Transition Metal in group 9.<br />
It has a Face centered cubic crystalline structure.<br />
This element has two stable isotopes: 191 and 193. <br />
<BR/><BR/><br />
<br />
<br />
==Related Articles==<br />
*[[Platinum Group Metals]]<br />
*[[Ruthenium]]<br />
*[[Rhodium]]<br />
*[[Palladium]]<br />
*[[Osmium]]<br />
*[[Platinum]]<br />
*[[Resource Values]]<br />
*[[Periodic Table]]<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Autostub}}<br />
[[Category:Solids]]<br />
[[Category:Transition Metals ]]<br />
<br />
<!-- Generated by a gamma candidate version of Autostub2 (Test 9) --></div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Laertes&diff=14965User talk:Laertes2009-01-19T19:14:10Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
<hr />
<div>I accidentally blocked you by mistake. My bad. I've unblocked you, but let me know if you have any trouble - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 00:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
: No worries, no problems so far... --[[User:Laertes|Laertes]] 01:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Please notice that in "Recent Changes" you now have the ability to block spam IP addresses. Also, in article histories you now have the ability to rollback edits with the click of a button instead of doing so manually. You must be logged in for these options. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 19:14, 19 January 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Farred&diff=14954User talk:Farred2009-01-18T22:28:17Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* hack */</p>
<hr />
<div>This page awaits comments. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 23:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Farred, you ask about snail mail address for Lunarpedia.<br />
<br />
Lunarpedia is an asset of the Moon Society, and this is the address:<br />
<br />
http://moonsociety.org/about/contact.php3<br />
<br />
The Moon Society<br />
P.O. Box 940825<br />
Plano, TX 75094-0825 [[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]] 16:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
==Mass Drivers==<br />
I recommend that you drop the font tags at the beginning as they are messing with the formatting, then provide a general summary of mass drivers before the circum polar section. Also, providing outside sources so that you're data can be verified is very important for article credibility. Without links to sources or the inclusion of specific and tested data, it will be assumed that your article is mostly conjecture. [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 06:10, 8 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Do you have a messenger program? I'm running yahoo, aim, icq, and I can load msn when needed. [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 15:59, 9 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I didn't mean to offend. Are you alright? - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 03:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Revealing your identity is unnecessary for posting graphics. Simply refer to yourself as "author" in the description of the graphic. "I, the auther, do hereby release this graphic ("to the public domain", "under the terms of the GNUFDL license", or "with my permission for use by Lunarpedia and as author I retain all rights to this work")"<br />
<br />
:Take your pick. GNUFDL is the "General Non-profit Use Free Documentation License" and means it can be replicated, modified, and used anywhere so long as it is not for profit. You can also obtain an anonymous email at webmail.aol.com, gmail.com, or hotmail.com - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 18:48, 14 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Robotics==<br />
<br />
Well done! I don't know what the response to the "Do People Care?" question is, but you've got the material for a glad-hander right there in your final argument and referenced addendum to final argument, combined with some of the earlier stuff. So long as you mention it as a way to exponentially increase capabilities on the ISS or Lunar Outpost by reducing the amount of people and life support needed on site, you shouldn't have any problems. Full robotic missions will come once the technology is far enough developed that humans become unnecessary for early stage facilities. Just be slick about it and don't tell them that unless it's what they want to hear ;-) - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 04:05, 27 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Metal Printing==<br />
The topic of printing metal parts has come up on another forum and I was wondering if you could take a look and give me your opinion on the "wire printer" concept, seeing as you're the metallurgy guru around these parts :D You can find the idea by following [http://forum.lunarcc.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30 this link]. Reply on lunarpedia if that makes you more comfortable. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 20:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thanks for the advice and links. I had a pretty good feeling that it wasn't going to be that easy (only because I have some welding experience). The overall goals of the group are unrealistic, to be quite honest. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 05:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==hack==<br />
You may have been hacked. please change your password - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 22:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Farred&diff=14953User talk:Farred2009-01-18T22:28:02Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
<hr />
<div>This page awaits comments. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 23:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Farred, you ask about snail mail address for Lunarpedia.<br />
<br />
Lunarpedia is an asset of the Moon Society, and this is the address:<br />
<br />
http://moonsociety.org/about/contact.php3<br />
<br />
The Moon Society<br />
P.O. Box 940825<br />
Plano, TX 75094-0825 [[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]] 16:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
==Mass Drivers==<br />
I recommend that you drop the font tags at the beginning as they are messing with the formatting, then provide a general summary of mass drivers before the circum polar section. Also, providing outside sources so that you're data can be verified is very important for article credibility. Without links to sources or the inclusion of specific and tested data, it will be assumed that your article is mostly conjecture. [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 06:10, 8 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Do you have a messenger program? I'm running yahoo, aim, icq, and I can load msn when needed. [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 15:59, 9 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I didn't mean to offend. Are you alright? - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 03:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Revealing your identity is unnecessary for posting graphics. Simply refer to yourself as "author" in the description of the graphic. "I, the auther, do hereby release this graphic ("to the public domain", "under the terms of the GNUFDL license", or "with my permission for use by Lunarpedia and as author I retain all rights to this work")"<br />
<br />
:Take your pick. GNUFDL is the "General Non-profit Use Free Documentation License" and means it can be replicated, modified, and used anywhere so long as it is not for profit. You can also obtain an anonymous email at webmail.aol.com, gmail.com, or hotmail.com - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 18:48, 14 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Robotics==<br />
<br />
Well done! I don't know what the response to the "Do People Care?" question is, but you've got the material for a glad-hander right there in your final argument and referenced addendum to final argument, combined with some of the earlier stuff. So long as you mention it as a way to exponentially increase capabilities on the ISS or Lunar Outpost by reducing the amount of people and life support needed on site, you shouldn't have any problems. Full robotic missions will come once the technology is far enough developed that humans become unnecessary for early stage facilities. Just be slick about it and don't tell them that unless it's what they want to hear ;-) - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 04:05, 27 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Metal Printing==<br />
The topic of printing metal parts has come up on another forum and I was wondering if you could take a look and give me your opinion on the "wire printer" concept, seeing as you're the metallurgy guru around these parts :D You can find the idea by following [http://forum.lunarcc.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30 this link]. Reply on lunarpedia if that makes you more comfortable. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 20:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thanks for the advice and links. I had a pretty good feeling that it wasn't going to be that easy (only because I have some welding experience). The overall goals of the group are unrealistic, to be quite honest. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 05:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==hack==<br />
You may have been hacked. please change your password</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Silicon&diff=14938Silicon2009-01-16T00:00:54Z<p>Jarogers2001: Reverted edits by 165.139.0.20 (Talk); changed back to last version by Cfrjlr</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Element |<br />
name=Silicon |<br />
symbol=Si |<br />
available= |<br />
need= |<br />
number=14 |<br />
mass=28.0855 |<br />
group=14 |<br />
period=3 |<br />
phase=Solid |<br />
series=Metalloids |<br />
density=2.33 g/cm3 |<br />
melts=1687K,<BR/>1414°C,<BR/>2577°F |<br />
boils=3538K,<BR/>3265°C,<BR/>5909°F |<br />
isotopes=28<BR/>29<BR/>30 |<br />
prior=[[Aluminum|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Al</FONT>]] |<br />
next=[[Phosphorus|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">P</FONT>]] |<br />
above=[[Carbon|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">C</FONT>]] |<br />
aprior=[[Boron|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">B</FONT>]] |<br />
anext=[[Nitrogen|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">N</FONT>]] |<br />
below=[[Germanium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Ge</FONT>]] |<br />
bprior=[[Gallium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Ga</FONT>]] |<br />
bnext=[[Arsenic|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">As</FONT>]] |<br />
radius=110 |<br />
bohr=111 |<br />
covalent=111 |<br />
vdwr=210 |<br />
irad=(+4) 40 |<br />
ipot=8.15 |<br />
econfig=1s<sup>2</sup> <br/>2s<sup>2</sup> 2p<sup>6</sup> <br/>3s<sup>2</sup> 3p<sup>2</sup> |<br />
eshell=2, 8, 4 |<br />
enega=1.9 |<br />
eaffin=1.39 |<br />
oxstat=4, 2 |<br />
magn=Nonmagnetic |<br />
cryst=Face centered cubic |<br />
}}<br />
'''Silicon''' is a Metalloid in group 14.<br />
It has a Face centered cubic crystalline structure.<br />
This element has 3 stable isotopes: 28, 29, and 30. <br />
<BR/><BR/><br />
Silicon is the second most common element in the lunar crust (after [[oxygen]]). Silicon on the moon is most commonly found in the form of the silicate ion, SiO<sub>4</sub><sup>+4</sup>. Most lunar rocks are in the form of silicates.<br />
<br />
In elemental form, silicon is a ''semimetal''; in purified form, it is a semiconductor which is used for semiconductor electronic devices. Wafers of single-crystal silicon may be used to make solar cells. An alloy of siicon and [[hydroge]]n, ''amorphous silicon'' (sometimes abbreviated to a-Si) is also used as a material for thin-film solar cells, which are lower in cost, but also lower in efficiency.<br />
<br />
The primary oxide of silicon is silica, SiO<sub>2</sub>; the oxide SiO also exists, and in general, a silicon oxide may be any mixture of these, with an empirical formula SiO<sub>x</sub>. Silica is a transparent solid which may be found in crystalline or amorphous form. Silica or silicate is the primary constituent of [[glass]]. While a form of glass can be made from pure silica, the very high melting temperature of silica makes high-silica glass difficult to work with, and almost all commonly used glass contains other components. On Earth, sodium oxide is usually added to form low-cost ''soda-lime glass'' (commonly called ''window glass''); boron oxides may then added to form the higher-cost ''borosilicate glass'', which has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion and hence may be used in applications involving heating and cooling. Many other specialized glass formulations exist, which use silica.<br />
<br />
Organic silicon compounds, known as ''silicones'', are flexible compounds sometimes used as sealing materials.<br />
<br />
==Silicon Info from USGS==<br />
"Silicon (Si) is a light chemical element that combines with oxygen and other elements to form silicates. Silicon in the form of silicates constitutes more than 25% of the Earth's crust. Silica (SiO2) as quartz or quartzite is used to produce silicon ferroalloys and silicon metal. Demand for silicon ferroalloys is driven principally by the production of cast iron and steel. Silicon metal, which generally is produced like ferrosilicon in submerged-arc electric furnaces, is used not as a ferroalloy, but rather for alloying with aluminum and for production of chemicals, especially silicones. Small quantities of silicon are processed into high-purity silicon for use in the semiconductor industry." - USGS Silicon Statistics and Information[http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/silicon/]<br />
<BR/><BR/><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Autostub}}<br />
[[Category:Abundant Elements]]<br />
[[Category:Nonmagnetic Elements]]<br />
[[Category:Solids]]<br />
[[Category:Metalloids ]]<br />
<br />
<!-- Generated by a gamma candidate version of Autostub2 (Test 9) --></div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Team_FREDNET&diff=14929Talk:Team FREDNET2009-01-14T04:10:18Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Open requests */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Requests for information ==<br />
Hello, I am a volunteer of Team FREDNET coordinating communications with Lunarpedia. We regularly need information about the space and lunar environment to support development of our lunar mission, and would be very appreciative if Lunarpedia contributors are able to help us out. I'm adding requests for such information in the list below, in order of importance (most important at top). Not all requests for information are 'mission critical', but in any event it will help draw as complete a picture of the mission environment as possible.--[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 13:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
==== Open requests ====<br />
* '''Radiation environment throughout mission'''. We need a thorough characterization of the radiation environment throughout a mission from the Earth to the Moon, including on Earth, in transit and on the Moon. It must be detailed enough to allow our engineers to design appropriate radiation shielding from the information. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 14:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::If you are interested in how to build space hardware for space environments, a good place to start is this book:<br />
::::Space Mission Analysis and Design (Third Edition) (Softback) [James R. Wertz and Wiley J. Larson, eds. - 1999]; 969 pages, 1999, Microcosm/Kluwer; ISBN 978-1881883104 [http://astrobooks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=942];<br />
:::Then this: <br />
::::Guide to Modeling Earth's Trapped Radiation Environment (Softback) [AIAA - 1999] 55 pgs, 1999, AIAA<br />
::::ISBN 1-56347-349-6<br />
:::Then this:<br />
::::Introduction to the Space Environment (Second Edition) (Softback) [Thomas F. Tascione - 1994] 0445S<br />
::::Thomas F. Tascione<br />
::::151 pgs, 1994, Krieger Publishing<br />
::::ISBN 978-0894640445<br />
:::''- Preceeding unsigned comment by [[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]]''<br />
::::Thanks for the recommendations. I've reposted them [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Talk:Tasks:Characterizing_mission_radiation_environment here]. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 20:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
* '''Calculating incident infrared radiation on lunar surface'''. This is more of a general physics problem than specifically a lunar science problem: how do you calculate the amount of infrared radiation emitted by the lunar surface that is incident on an area at the surface, such as the sides of our lunar lander? For a full description of the problem and an illustration, please see [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Tasks:IR-radiation_calculation_on_lunar_surface this page]. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 19:19, 11 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Spoke to a friend and this is what I got, in all its mathematical terminology: ''"Basically, you need to figure out the solid angle A(x, y) subtended by the lander from any point (x, y) on the Moon’s surface. That’s a straightforward but messy bit of trig. The amount of radiation captured from the area element [(x, y), (x+dx, y+dy)] will then be A(x, y)/2pi dx dy times the radiation emitted per unit area, which you can calculate from the info in the problem. (It’s A/2pi because the solid angle of a hemisphere is 2pi steradians.) Finally, you integrate that over all (x, y)."'' - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 23:21, 11 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Excellent, James. Reposted [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Talk:Tasks:IR-radiation_calculation_on_lunar_surface here]. Thanks. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 00:53, 12 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Marcel has a follow-up question: "In your calculation you say that radiation goes out evenly spread out over all possible directions in a hemisphere. Is that physically correct? Isn't it possible that we have another repartition ?" (see sketch [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Talk:Tasks:IR-radiation_calculation_on_lunar_surface here]) <br />
:::::::The left case is correct. If you model a very small piece of the surface then direction is irrelevant because energy is emitted in a uniform sphere. For an arbitrarily large number of pieces arranged as a surface, energy "rays" which point towards or are emitted into the surface are absorbed. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 04:10, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
--[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 21:49, 12 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
* '''Regolith composition at Apollo landing sites'''. The composition of regolith varies greatly with location on the Moon. We need to know the composition of the surface material at our landing site to calculate its frictional properties, which in turn will be used to design our rover. We have not selected a landing site yet, but it will most likely be one of the heritage Apollo landing sites. Hence, we need to know the exact geological composition of the lunar regolith at these sites. Since surface samples were taken by the Apollo astronauts, this information should be available from NASA in some form.--[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 13:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-sampcats.html Apollo Sample Catalogs]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/TM-2005-213610.pdf The Effects of Lunar Dust on EVA Systems During the Apollo Missions]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/TP-2006-213726.pdf The Apollo Experience Lessons Learned for Constellation Lunar Dust Management]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/19770020109_1977020109.pdf Lunar Sample Studies]<br />
::::[[JSC-1]] - ''Approximately 27,000 lb of JSC-1 simulant is currently available for distribution to qualified investigators. The only cost is for shipping. The material is stored at the Texas A&M Lunar Soil Simulant Laboratory. Investigators desiring a portion of this simulant should address their requests to Dr. Walter Boles, Department of Civil Engineering, Texas A&M University, College Station, TX 77843 (Telephone 409-845-2493, fax 409-862-2800).''<br />
::::[[Lunar Dust]]<br />
:::::Thanks for the links - they have been integrated [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Tasks:Geological_composition_of_regolith_at_Apollo_sites here] and [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Talk:Lunar_Environment here] and [http://forum.xprize.frednet.com/viewtopic.php?p=2492#2492 here]. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 15:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
* '''Illuminance on the lunar surface'''. We are trying to figure out how (particularly, how brightly) objects on the lunar surface (not the lunar surface itself) are illuminated at various times of lunar day and night. We need this information to design visual systems (cameras) for our lander and rover. At least three sources of illuminance has to be taken into consideration: sunshine (light from the Sun), earthshine (sunlight reflected by Earth), and moonshine (sunlight reflected by the lunar surface itself). --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 14:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I'm at a loss on this one. Charles, is this covered in the books you listed? - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 10:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== Closed requests ====<br />
* '''Designers of Apollo RTGs'''. We have been considering using the SNAP-27 RTGs left by Apollo 12 through 17 on the lunar surface as a heat source during lunar night - even today these radioactive containers still radiate a considerable amount of heat to their surroundings. To determine the feasibility of using the RTGs like that, we would like to get in touch with the original designers of the Apollo SNAP-27 RTG's to ask them about the characteristics of the RTG's on the lunar surface so we can produce a thermal model of the units. We need contact information for these persons. All we currently know is that they worked at General Electric. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 15:50, 4 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::The RTGs are US government property. You will need to discuss their usage with various US federal agencies with jurisdiction, e.g. NOAA, State Dept, DOE, NASA. Technology of RTG will involve ITAR issues which will require export license for non-US citizens. Contacting GE will do no good, they will simply direct you the US federal agencies. Good luck. [[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]]<br />
:::::Thanks, but we are not contemplating using the RTGs. We are considering using the heat dissipating from them naturally by radioactive decay. We are not trying to get in touch with General Electric or any federal agencies who may own the RTGs, but rather the individuals who designed the units, so we can produce a thermal model of them to determine the feasibility of utilizing this otherwise wasted energy. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 12:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::The best information I have found currently would seem to indicate that the RTGs are now too depleted to emit much in the way of heat based on the radioactive decay rate of plutonium. Was there ever any public information disclosure as to the mass of radioactive material included in the RTGs? That would have saved quite a bit of time in considering their use. [[User:fjb|Fred J. Bourgeois, III]]<br />
:::::This should be checked against more reliable sources, but the fuel capsule contained 3.8 kilograms (8.4 pounds) of plutonium-238 in oxide form (44,500 Ci or 1.65 PBq) according to Wikipedia. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 19:02, 11 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Indeed, [http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/documents/NASA%20RP-1036.pdf this NASA report] suggests that the RTGs degraded by around 60% in just their first decade on the lunar surface, so they must be everything but depleted now. Request closed. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 20:09, 12 January 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Team_FREDNET&diff=14915Talk:Team FREDNET2009-01-11T23:21:50Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Requests for information */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Requests for information ==<br />
Hello, I am a volunteer of Team FREDNET coordinating communications with Lunarpedia. We regularly need information about the space and lunar environment to support development of our lunar mission, and would be very appreciative if Lunarpedia contributors are able to help us out. I'm adding requests for such information in the list below, in order of importance (most important at top). Not all requests for information are 'mission critical', but in any event it will help draw as complete a picture of the mission environment as possible.--[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 13:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* '''Radiation environment throughout mission'''. We need a thorough characterization of the radiation environment throughout a mission from the Earth to the Moon, including on Earth, in transit and on the Moon. It must be detailed enough to allow our engineers to design appropriate radiation shielding from the information. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 14:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::If you are interested in how to build space hardware for space environments, a good place to start is this book:<br />
::::Space Mission Analysis and Design (Third Edition) (Softback) [James R. Wertz and Wiley J. Larson, eds. - 1999]; 969 pages, 1999, Microcosm/Kluwer; ISBN 978-1881883104 [http://astrobooks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=942];<br />
:::Then this: <br />
::::Guide to Modeling Earth's Trapped Radiation Environment (Softback) [AIAA - 1999] 55 pgs, 1999, AIAA<br />
::::ISBN 1-56347-349-6<br />
:::Then this:<br />
::::Introduction to the Space Environment (Second Edition) (Softback) [Thomas F. Tascione - 1994] 0445S<br />
::::Thomas F. Tascione<br />
::::151 pgs, 1994, Krieger Publishing<br />
::::ISBN 978-0894640445<br />
:::''- Preceeding unsigned comment by [[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]]''<br />
::::Thanks for the recommendations. I've reposted them [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Talk:Tasks:Characterizing_mission_radiation_environment here]. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 20:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
* '''Calculating incident infrared radiation on lunar surface'''. This is more of a general physics problem than specifically a lunar science problem: how do you calculate the amount of infrared radiation emitted by the lunar surface that is incident on an area at the surface, such as the sides of our lunar lander? For a full description of the problem and an illustration, please see [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Tasks:IR-radiation_calculation_on_lunar_surface this page]. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 19:19, 11 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Spoke to a friend and this is what I got, in all its mathematical terminology: ''"Basically, you need to figure out the solid angle A(x, y) subtended by the lander from any point (x, y) on the Moon’s surface. That’s a straightforward but messy bit of trig. The amount of radiation captured from the area element [(x, y), (x+dx, y+dy)] will then be A(x, y)/2pi dx dy times the radiation emitted per unit area, which you can calculate from the info in the problem. (It’s A/2pi because the solid angle of a hemisphere is 2pi steradians.) Finally, you integrate that over all (x, y)."'' - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 23:21, 11 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
* '''Designers of Apollo RTGs'''. We have been considering using the SNAP-27 RTGs left by Apollo 12 through 17 on the lunar surface as a heat source during lunar night - even today these radioactive containers still radiate a considerable amount of heat to their surroundings. To determine the feasibility of using the RTGs like that, we would like to get in touch with the original designers of the Apollo SNAP-27 RTG's to ask them about the characteristics of the RTG's on the lunar surface so we can produce a thermal model of the units. We need contact information for these persons. All we currently know is that they worked at General Electric. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 15:50, 4 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::The RTGs are US government property. You will need to discuss their usage with various US federal agencies with jurisdiction, e.g. NOAA, State Dept, DOE, NASA. Technology of RTG will involve ITAR issues which will require export license for non-US citizens. Contacting GE will do no good, they will simply direct you the US federal agencies. Good luck. [[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]]<br />
:::::Thanks, but we are not contemplating using the RTGs. We are considering using the heat dissipating from them naturally by radioactive decay. We are not trying to get in touch with General Electric or any federal agencies who may own the RTGs, but rather the individuals who designed the units, so we can produce a thermal model of them to determine the feasibility of utilizing this otherwise wasted energy. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 12:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::The best information I have found currently would seem to indicate that the RTGs are now too depleted to emit much in the way of heat based on the radioactive decay rate of plutonium. Was there ever any public information disclosure as to the mass of radioactive material included in the RTGs? That would have saved quite a bit of time in considering their use. [[User:fjb|Fred J. Bourgeois, III]]<br />
:::::This should be checked against more reliable sources, but the fuel capsule contained 3.8 kilograms (8.4 pounds) of plutonium-238 in oxide form (44,500 Ci or 1.65 PBq) according to Wikipedia. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 19:02, 11 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
* '''Regolith composition at Apollo landing sites'''. The composition of regolith varies greatly with location on the Moon. We need to know the composition of the surface material at our landing site to calculate its frictional properties, which in turn will be used to design our rover. We have not selected a landing site yet, but it will most likely be one of the heritage Apollo landing sites. Hence, we need to know the exact geological composition of the lunar regolith at these sites. Since surface samples were taken by the Apollo astronauts, this information should be available from NASA in some form.--[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 13:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-sampcats.html Apollo Sample Catalogs]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/TM-2005-213610.pdf The Effects of Lunar Dust on EVA Systems During the Apollo Missions]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/TP-2006-213726.pdf The Apollo Experience Lessons Learned for Constellation Lunar Dust Management]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/19770020109_1977020109.pdf Lunar Sample Studies]<br />
::::[[JSC-1]] - ''Approximately 27,000 lb of JSC-1 simulant is currently available for distribution to qualified investigators. The only cost is for shipping. The material is stored at the Texas A&M Lunar Soil Simulant Laboratory. Investigators desiring a portion of this simulant should address their requests to Dr. Walter Boles, Department of Civil Engineering, Texas A&M University, College Station, TX 77843 (Telephone 409-845-2493, fax 409-862-2800).''<br />
::::[[Lunar Dust]]<br />
:::::Thanks for the links - they have been integrated [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Tasks:Geological_composition_of_regolith_at_Apollo_sites here] and [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Talk:Lunar_Environment here] and [http://forum.xprize.frednet.com/viewtopic.php?p=2492#2492 here]. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 15:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
* '''Illuminance on the lunar surface'''. We are trying to figure out how (particularly, how brightly) objects on the lunar surface (not the lunar surface itself) are illuminated at various times of lunar day and night. We need this information to design visual systems (cameras) for our lander and rover. At least three sources of illuminance has to be taken into consideration: sunshine (light from the Sun), earthshine (sunlight reflected by Earth), and moonshine (sunlight reflected by the lunar surface itself). --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 14:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I'm at a loss on this one. Charles, is this covered in the books you listed? - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 10:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Luna-Mars_Trade&diff=14914Talk:Luna-Mars Trade2009-01-11T22:08:50Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
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<div>All of the processes necessary for Luna-Mars trade are not sketched in any great detail, but it seems worth considering. If a mass accelerator can boost the supersonic landing Mars to low Mars orbit vehicle mentioned up to 1025 meters per second, then 49% of the take-off weight gets to orbit.--'''FARTHERRED'''11:28pm Central Standard Time 31 October 2008 <br />
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Does the original creator realize that by inserting a slash in the article name, he has created a sub-article of [[Luna]]? - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 07:09, 1 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Problems like that can be avoided if we disable subpages for mainspace articles. I believe Wikipedia has done this. However, it might be a better idea for Lunarpedia if we keep subpages for mainspace articles. In that case, I suggest moving the content to "Luna-Mars trade". [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 07:41, 1 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
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::Moving it was my thought as well. I rather like subpages. Any objections to a move? - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 16:14, 1 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
*Aw shucks. It says right here on my Wiki Reference Card not to use slash, plus sign, number sign, or any of a number of kinds of brackets in a title. I did not have the reference card with me at a distant location but probably would not have consulted it anyway. This is one way to learn. I hope it is not too much trouble to move the article.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 16:36, 1 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
:It can be moved just like any other article. There is no additional procedure. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 03:53, 2 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::If we disable it, we should also disable it for the seldom used GFDL namespace and the never used CC_Luna namespace, as they have teh same function as the main namespace, just not public domain. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 18:18, 1 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::I see no reason to disable it at this time. I intend to use sub-articles in the future. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 03:53, 2 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
*Why should a Mars to low Mars orbit vehicle have wings and land supersonic? The wings should allow the vehicle to kill its orbital velocity through aerodynamic drag when returning to Mars and lift from the wings should allow the vehicle to set down gently on a runway. The orbital speed being considered is only about 40% faster than the SR-71 flew, and the Mars to low Mars orbit vehicle would only move through the atmosphere at that speed for a short time while reentering from orbit. If the SR-71 could tolerate 2450 meters per second for thousands of miles of flight, a Mars to low Mars orbit vehicle should be able to tolerate flying at 3440 meters per second through Mars' upper atmosphere for a few minutes. The vehicle would not move at orbital velocity when touching down on a runway, but it would still need to be supersonic to generate enough lift for a gentle landing.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:47, 4 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
A lifting reentry for martian cargo is an interesting idea. I have always contemplated capsule type landings. However, I am a bit skeptical about a supersonic landing. If I am correct, supersonic on Mars is faster then on Earth due to thinner air. And, even in the thinner air, any landing gear being deployed would have to resist this force. Add to that what the gear would encounter on contect with the ground, and I don't see a happy landing. To lower the landing speed, one would have to increase the lifting force. Maybe swing wings would work, they will incease compexity.<br />
<br />
How is the shuttle launched from the Martian surface? Is it a vertical or horizontal launch? [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 07:53, 4 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*In the case of the speed of sound T.Neo's memory serves falsely. The speed of sound is dependent directly on the temperature and inversely on molecular weight, but it is nearly independent of pressure. The suggested shuttle would take off vertically for the version that puts 36% of take-off weight into orbit. It would be thrown into the atmosphere near the peak of mount Olympus at 1025 meters per second in the version to be boosted by electric acceleration which is suggested to achieve 49% of take-off weight to orbit. SSTO is a less demanding challenge for Mars than for Earth. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 14:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
::Woa. I thought that the speed at which sound propagates is dependent upon the density of the medium, not the temperature. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 19:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
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SSTO is definatly much easier on Mars then on Earth.<br />
What is the speed of sound on Mars? What would the landing speed for the shuttle be? WHat kind of forces would the landing gear endure? What would the heat sheild of such a craft be made of? [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 16:07, 5 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
*I will return to the speed of sound on Mars later. For now I was thinking of a titanium steel Aerodynamic shell with heat soak on reentry and an insulated internal compartment for electronics with evaporative cooling using dry ice. Landing gear would be skids with an expendable layer.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 16:29, 5 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
*The speed of sound on mars at about 0 C is about 240 m/sec making the low orbit velocity about mach 14.2 and and the contemplated electricly accelerated boost about mach 4.2 --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 19:22, 5 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
*I can see how Jarogers2001 might think that the speed of sound is dependent on density since sound travles faster in steel and in water than in air at room temperature. However, we are talking about just the atmosphere of Mars here, so the speed of sound is the square root of the quantity of the specific heat ratio times the gas constant times the temperature devided by the molecular weight quantity closed. That can be rewritten as a function of density, but that would seem an unneeded complication.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 20:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
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Titanium-steel thermal soak confuses me. Thermal soak is when an insulating substance keeps heat away from the airframe. Titanium-steel seems more like a radiative heatshield, where excess heat is radiated away, like the shuttle RCC. However, the problem with the shuttle RCC (And, presumably Titanium-steel) is that they are as good at conducting heat as they are radiating it. This means that the Titanium-steel will conduct heat to the rest of the ship. Not only does the computer need to be cooled, but systems to deploy the landing gear, the RCS, the MEs, etc. Add to that, whatever payload you are carrying might not like being heated up too much. Since the methane (and LOX) tanks take up a lot of space, it might be better to make the upper hull out of thinner material, possibly aluminium.<br />
<br />
Considering where this craft would be working, and the stresses it endures on the way down, it would have to be pretty robust. It needs a minimal use of electronics, and must be maintainable with substances found on Mars. Nothing like the current space shuttle. Think of an aircraft operating out of the Siberian tundra. It must be very robust, like many russian aircraft. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 20:43, 5 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
*Sorry about “titanium steel.” That shows that I am not very familiar with titanium alloys. Try Grade 6 titanium alloy, containing 5% Aluminum and 2.5% Tin. Perhaps Grade 5 or Grade 9 would be better. I do not feel capable of making a final determination of alloy, but it isn’t going to be simple aluminum. It seems that I have heard of some heat resistant aluminum based alloys, but I can not name a good candidate at the moment. <br />
*As far as cargo heating is concerned, this thing takes cargo up for shipping exports. It comes down empty. That is when the heat threat is a worry. The landing skids are constantly deployed. They are part of the airframe, like ventral fins. The flaps are operated by heat resistant cables. The control motors are in the same insulated box as the electronics. A section of the air frame with the cross section reducing from fore to aft will not have such serious heat threat problems. The reaction control nozzles can stick out there. Any unused reaction control fuel can be dumped once the flaps bite. What are “MEs?” <br />
*I am not familiar with what you mean by heat soak, but the vehicle I describe would just soak up the heat and get hot. The idea is that the exposure to maximum heat threat will be short enough that it will not melt. <br />
*Minimizing the use of electronics would not make the craft more rugged. Electronic components can keep going for decades. Electronics are light enough that spare boards can be shipped with the craft without significant extra expense. Anything that fails can be swapped out. That is Siberia level maintenance. The electronics are necessary for this thing to work. <br />
*Since I am not an aeronautical engineer, I put only limited faith in my own suggestion, but nothing written here so far seems like a serious objection. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 22:15, 5 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
*I can only roughly guess what speed would be necessary for landing. I guess 1000 miles per hour. That is about mach1.9 on Mars. There is reason for thinking the thermal threat will not be too great. Besides there being only 20% of the energy per pound of reentering spacecraft as there is on Earth, the carbon dioxide atmosphere heats up to a lower temperature for any given amount of heat it absorbs because carbon dioxide is triatomic. Also since carbon dioxide is half again as heavy as the average air molecule, for any given temperature the average carbon dioxide molecule is moving only about 82% as fast as an average air molecule at that temperature. This means that carbon dioxide does not transfer heat as effectively to the skin of a supersonic aircraft as air does. The point of my greatest uncertainty is whether or not the craft can maintain orientational control while supersonic in ground effect. This is an almost completely untested area.<br />
<br />
Pity it only takes cargo on the way up. If I wanted to export anything from the martian system it would probably be mined from Deimos or Phobos. <br />
Landing large cargo on Mars is very tricky. Plans like Mars direct and Mars for less neglect landing. <br />
The Mars Science Laboratory will land with A "skycrane" system. However, this may not hold up well to <br />
sustainability. Is there any way this could be reconfigured for payload delivery to the Martian surface?<br />
Modularity is a good idea. Anything that cannot be made on Mars should be brought from Earth. For example, the MEs (Main Engines, sorry.) will be quite complex. If one breaks, a new one could be delivered from Earth, and just "dropped in". Same with electronics.<br />
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What would the maintainance effort? And what about turnaround time? [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 08:57, 6 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
*The supersonic landing Mars to low Mars orbit shuttle (MTLMOS) concept is just that, a concept. Taking cargo down to Mars would increase the mass of the shuttle and therefore the thermal threat, but I can not produce the numbers that would say that this is possible or that it is not. Just working out the shape of the supersonic airframe, its center of gravity, and control parameters would be quite a task. If someone does that, they might say, “Yeah, we can take a little cargo on the downward leg.” They might say, “We tried but we just can not make it work. It always goes wild on the runway before touchdown and tumbles itself to death.” <br />
*The Space Shuttle Main Engines are notorious for requiring much maintenance between flights, but sadly the over all system is even worse. I would say that if the MTLMOS can not be turned around is less than a week, it should probably not be built. I have faith that handily operable to orbit systems will one day be realized, but that faith does not allow me to answer detailed questions about how they will work. --'''FARTHERRED'''11:10 Central Standard Time 6 November 2008<br />
*The edit by Laertes at 00:38 on 8January2009 moved the description of volatiles on Phobos from a possibility to a declaration. It seems likely that this was inadvertant. If Laertes wants this to be a definite statement there should be a reference to indicate how we know Phobos is rich in volatiles.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 22:41, 9 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, I missed that. It is fixed now, plus a reference. Thanks for the help.--[[User:Laertes|Laertes]] 00:38, 10 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Marspedia Mirror==<br />
It makes sense to me that this article be shared between Marspedia and Lunarpedia rather than having two separate articles. I have mirrored it onto Marspedia, and plan on adding more content soon. Let me know if this is a bad idea, I am newer to Lunarpedia than Marspedia. --[[User:Laertes|Laertes]] 01:05, 7 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Laertes,--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 21:11, 7 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks! I think that sharing the article is an excellent idea. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 22:08, 11 January 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:LUNAX/Discussion&diff=14913Talk:LUNAX/Discussion2009-01-11T21:38:04Z<p>Jarogers2001: New page: Discuss LUNAX here. - ~~~~</p>
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<div>Discuss LUNAX here. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 21:38, 11 January 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=LUNAX&diff=14911LUNAX2009-01-11T21:36:10Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
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<div>{{Org Stub}}<br />
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<!--Note to self. PK has given permission for use of text/images from lunax.org. JR--><br />
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The Lunar National Agriculture Experiment Corporation is a research and development effort focused on lunar agriculture and methods to make it both feasible and more productive. The focus of the project revolves around the reduction of agricultural power consumption using innovative lighting techniques, the conversion and [[ISRU|use of in-situ materials]] as an expandable growing medium, and ensuring the survival of agricultural plants during the two-week lunar night when energy for generating heat and light will be difficult to come by.<br />
<br />
LUNAX began as a spin-off effort of the [[Lunar Reclamation Society]] which serves as the Milwaukee, WI chapter of the [[NSS]] and [[Moon Society]]. LUNAX is currently active, although the website has not been updated in some time.<br />
<br />
Areas of project interest revolve around:<br />
*[[Hydroponics]] and [[aquaculture]]<br />
*Advanced, high-efficiency [[lighting methods]]<br />
*Adapting lunar [[regolith]] as an agricultural medium<br />
*Pyrogenic carbon as a nutrient reservoir<br />
*Growth at high altitude/low pressures<br />
*Suspending growth for two weeks via reduced lighting and temperature<br />
<br />
Until a proper forum is set up or a designated area on another forum can be allocated, LUNAX discussions may take place '''[[LUNAX/Discussion | here]]'''.<br />
<br />
==External Links==<br />
*[http://lunax.org/ LUNAX Homepage - not recently updated]. A new website is in the works.<br />
*[http://www.asi.org/adb/02/12/01/01/ The Artemis Project - Lunar Agriculture]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Long_Endurance_Rovers&diff=14887Long Endurance Rovers2009-01-07T11:04:38Z<p>Jarogers2001: format testing</p>
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On most of [[Luna]] a roving robot explorer must either be made to endure 354 hour days followed by 354 hour nights or be considered a disposable rover. If we can not build things to continue operating a few years at a stretch on Luna, we might as well forget about a [[lunar base]]. This article suggest sample solutions to show that solutions exist. Better solutions than these will be developed. <br />
<br />
==Thermal Management==<br />
The [[Apollo]] astronauts used expendables for thermal management and recycled nothing. We can not use up expendables at that rate for years for robot explorers. Thermal management for lunar rovers is possible with radiators that do not use up expendables. One scheme is related to the simpler thermal management of a stationary base. At the equatorial region a wall could be set up running east and west and inclined away from the nearest pole by an angle equal to the latitude. The top of such a wall can be covered with reflective [[aluminum]] and that is the only part of the wall that the sun strikes. A trough shaped aluminum [[parabolic reflector]] can be built to shield the wall from the surrounding hot lunar landscape and reject incident sunlight to space. Such a trough would have a cross section in the shape of the curve that graphically represents y=x<sup>2</sup> over the range of x=0.7, y=0.49 to x=-0.7, y=0.49 while the cross section of the wall would be represented by the line segment from x=0, y=0 to x=0 y=0.2. Sunlight that strikes the inside of such a trough will be focused above the wall and return to space. The wall can house a [[radiator]] shaped and coated for high emissivity. This radiator would be effectively shaded from sun and hot lunar terrain and radiate to the cold of space. By circulating a solution of [[water]] and [[ethylene glycol]] through this radiator cooling can be provided for sensitive equipment without throwing out any mass of evaporated liquid. Shrink this concept so that it can be carried by a rover and the rover should survive the day. The rover using such a radiator would best have six or more legs, so it could walk any direction without changing its heading. <br />
<br />
==Staying All Night==<br />
At night an insulative cover can be pulled over the radiator. [[Sintered Brick Construction|Sintered brick shelters]] can be built for spending the night and pumped storage of high pressure [[oxygen]] can run electric generators at night. Until these things can be available a [[radio thermal generator]] can provide heat and power during the night.<br />
<br />
==Micrometeoroid Protection==<br />
<br />
[[Micrometeoroids]] can be ignored until one strikes the radiator. The smallest of leaks would be extremely expensive even if the radiator were compartmentalized to allow one section to loose fluid while the rest of the radiator remains intact. The design should allow a leaking section to be isolated and pumped dry. The location of a leak would be sensed by the decrease of pressure in the leaking section. Beyond this the radiator can be removed from the micrometeoroid threat without too much reducing its effectiveness. Go back to the shape in cross section of the protective parabolic trough. Throw half the parabolic trough away and we are left with the cross section represented by y=x<sup>2</sup> over the range from x=0, y=0 to x=0.7, y=0.49. Replace the left side of the parabolic trough with an aluminum foil box represented in cross section by the line segments x=0, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0; x=-0.2, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0.2; and x=-0.2, y=0.2 to x=0, y=0.2. Put the radiator in this box just to the right of the side represented by x=-0.2, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0.2 and there is no strait line path from the radiator to the sky, but because of aluminum's reflectivity the heat radiated mostly reaches the black sky. Now make the aluminum foil trough and box double thickness with an inch of space between to make an effective micrometeoroid shield. So the radiator is shaded from the hot sun, shaded from the hot terrain and protected from micrometeoroids while still radiating reasonably well to cold space.<br />
<br />
==Alternate Radiator Shield for Rovers==<br />
[[Image:Rovr1.jpeg|thumb|400px|right|<!--insert caption here-->]]<br />
[[Image:Rovr2.jpg|thumb|400px|right|This image shows the sun's eye view of the radiator shield.]] <br />
[[Image:Rovr3.jpeg|thumb|400px|right|This image shows the radiator with the shield detached and moved out of the way.]]<br />
The above design concept for a radiator shield is best suited for buildings. For a rover that would turn to all compass directions rather than traveling all various directions while maintaining a constant compass heading, there is an alternate radiator shield shape. A half paraboloid of revolution about the x=0, z=0 axis. The particular shape is y equals ((x<sup>2</sup>)+(z<sup>2</sup>)) in the range of z is positive and y ranges from 0 to 0.8. That curved surface would be formed of reflective aluminum foil along with the area of the z = 0 plane greater than y = x<sup>2</sup> greater than y = 0.2 and less than y = 0.8. Heat would be radiated out through the area of the plane z = 0 where y is greater than x<sup>2</sup> and less than 0.2. The heat would be reflected out along the positive y direction with the x=0, z=0 axis pointed at the sun. The radiator would have a circular shape on the top of the rover. An articulated section of the radiator shield would be composed of sections of spherical surfaces and a tube connecting the space enclosed by the sections of spherical surfaces to the paraboloid section of the shield. Pivots on opposite poles of the spherical sections would allow their turning about a horizontal axis while the pivots would be mounted on the radiator by a ring bearing allowing rotation about the vertical axis. The axis of the paraboloid should be able to point 360 degrees about to front, rear or side and vary in elevation from forty to ninety degrees from horizontal. When the sun is 40 degrees or more above the horizon, the axis of the paraboloid is pointed at the sun. When the sun is in the sky below 40 degrees of elevation the axis of the paraboloid points to the cold black sky along the [[azimuth]] opposite the sun. <br />
The radiator may need to be a larger fraction of the rover's surface area than indicated by the picture. [[Cameras]], communication [[antennas]], and [[manipulator arms]] are not shown but left to the reader's imagination. <br />
<br />
<br />
==Dust==<br />
There is no need for dust to be a bogeyman that prevents plans for long term operation of devices on Luna. The [[lunar dust]] is certainly nasty stuff, but it can be dealt with. Consider how dust gets stuck to devices on Luna. 1) DIRECT CONTACT: The area of devices that contact Luna must be limited to nonsensitive areas. The wheels of a rover can contact Luna and come into thermal equilibrium with the surface. The wheels would be locked to the axles and the rotary bearing would be within the rover allowing each axle to turn as one with its wheel. Dust picked up by the wheel would fall only on a protruding section of axle. 2) BALLISTIC TRANSFER: The speed of the rover would be limited to prevent dust being thrown in detrimental ballistic trajectories. 3) WIND: There are neither air currents nor wind on Luna. 4) ELECTROSTATIC FORCE: Static charges in dust particles cause the positively charged particles to move toward negative potentials and negatively charged particles to move toward positive potentials. Most of a rover would be covered with aluminum foil maintained at one potential. Antennae of the proper shape and charge can dissipate overall excess charge. Electronic grid elements of various shapes and potentials will either draw dust particles to disposal and so remove them from sensitive spots or simply repel dust particles from those spots. Simulated lunar dust in vacuum chambers on Earth can be treated in various ways to produce charged dust particles. So rover designs can be tested on Earth to be reasonably sure that dust will not settle in sensitive spots. What other way can dust move? It must obey physical laws.<br />
<br />
==Costs and Benefits==<br />
These design considerations certainly complicate the making of a lunar vehicle, but producing a device that will operate five or more years and potentially be repairable should be about 130 times as valuable as one that only works two weeks before turning into a piece of scrap. The least necessary of these design features are the micrometeoroid protective shields. The cost of these features includes the cost of a somewhat larger radiator. The cost must be balanced against the risk. Merely isolating damaged radiator sections may be most cost effective. <br />
<br />
[[Image:Rovr.jpeg|thumb|150px|right|<!--insert caption here-->]]<br />
<br />
==Another Alternate Radiator Shade==<br />
The [[solar cells]] for a rover could be stuck up on a pole and spread out to form an umbrella. The pole would be maneuvered to provide shade for the radiator. The pole should be long enough that the infrared radiation from the bottom of the umbrella mostly misses the rover. The umbrella pole does not need to be so long if a second umbrella on the same pole is between the solar panel and the rover. The second umbrella would be the same diameter as the first, and from the shade of the first umbrella could radiate enough heat so that it would not be a significant source of radiant heat itself. <br />
==Predicting Possible Futures== <br />
There is an article entitled [[Show Stoppers]] that also deals with thermal management. As shown above, thermal management is not a show stopper. As can be shown point by point, there are no true show stoppers listed in the above mentioned article. The people of the United States have choices before them. We can cooperate with other nations in the economic development of Luna at a rate that really cannot be hurried in any reasonable way. We can abandon the development to other nations and a hundred years from now we will be buying communications and [[Solar Power Satellites | space based solar power]] from others. This is a long time frame for politicians to deal with. It is tempting to just deal with immediate problems and let them soak up the relatively small amount that can pay for developing lunar resources at a reasonable rate. Politicians in the United States must follow the people or be out of work. There is time to reach the people. Nothing will happen overnight on Luna. <br />
[[category:Robots]]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Long_Endurance_Rovers&diff=14886Long Endurance Rovers2009-01-07T11:03:45Z<p>Jarogers2001: format testing</p>
<hr />
<div>{|align=left<br />
|__TOC__<br />
|}<br />
<br />
On most of [[Luna]] a roving robot explorer must either be made to endure 354 hour days followed by 354 hour nights or be considered a disposable rover. If we can not build things to continue operating a few years at a stretch on Luna, we might as well forget about a [[lunar base]]. This article suggest sample solutions to show that solutions exist. Better solutions than these will be developed. <br />
<br />
==Thermal Management==<br />
The [[Apollo]] astronauts used expendables for thermal management and recycled nothing. We can not use up expendables at that rate for years for robot explorers. Thermal management for lunar rovers is possible with radiators that do not use up expendables. One scheme is related to the simpler thermal management of a stationary base. At the equatorial region a wall could be set up running east and west and inclined away from the nearest pole by an angle equal to the latitude. The top of such a wall can be covered with reflective [[aluminum]] and that is the only part of the wall that the sun strikes. A trough shaped aluminum [[parabolic reflector]] can be built to shield the wall from the surrounding hot lunar landscape and reject incident sunlight to space. Such a trough would have a cross section in the shape of the curve that graphically represents y=x<sup>2</sup> over the range of x=0.7, y=0.49 to x=-0.7, y=0.49 while the cross section of the wall would be represented by the line segment from x=0, y=0 to x=0 y=0.2. Sunlight that strikes the inside of such a trough will be focused above the wall and return to space. The wall can house a [[radiator]] shaped and coated for high emissivity. This radiator would be effectively shaded from sun and hot lunar terrain and radiate to the cold of space. By circulating a solution of [[water]] and [[ethylene glycol]] through this radiator cooling can be provided for sensitive equipment without throwing out any mass of evaporated liquid. Shrink this concept so that it can be carried by a rover and the rover should survive the day. The rover using such a radiator would best have six or more legs, so it could walk any direction without changing its heading. <br />
<br />
==Staying All Night==<br />
At night an insulative cover can be pulled over the radiator. [[Sintered Brick Construction|Sintered brick shelters]] can be built for spending the night and pumped storage of high pressure [[oxygen]] can run electric generators at night. Until these things can be available a [[radio thermal generator]] can provide heat and power during the night.<br />
<br />
==Micrometeoroid Protection==<br />
<br />
[[Micrometeoroids]] can be ignored until one strikes the radiator. The smallest of leaks would be extremely expensive even if the radiator were compartmentalized to allow one section to loose fluid while the rest of the radiator remains intact. The design should allow a leaking section to be isolated and pumped dry. The location of a leak would be sensed by the decrease of pressure in the leaking section. Beyond this the radiator can be removed from the micrometeoroid threat without too much reducing its effectiveness. Go back to the shape in cross section of the protective parabolic trough. Throw half the parabolic trough away and we are left with the cross section represented by y=x<sup>2</sup> over the range from x=0, y=0 to x=0.7, y=0.49. Replace the left side of the parabolic trough with an aluminum foil box represented in cross section by the line segments x=0, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0; x=-0.2, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0.2; and x=-0.2, y=0.2 to x=0, y=0.2. Put the radiator in this box just to the right of the side represented by x=-0.2, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0.2 and there is no strait line path from the radiator to the sky, but because of aluminum's reflectivity the heat radiated mostly reaches the black sky. Now make the aluminum foil trough and box double thickness with an inch of space between to make an effective micrometeoroid shield. So the radiator is shaded from the hot sun, shaded from the hot terrain and protected from micrometeoroids while still radiating reasonably well to cold space.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Rovr1.jpeg|thumb|400px|right|<!--insert caption here-->]]<br />
[[Image:Rovr2.jpg|thumb|400px|right|This image shows the sun's eye view of the radiator shield.]] <br />
[[Image:Rovr3.jpeg|thumb|400px|right|This image shows the radiator with the shield detached and moved out of the way.]]<br />
<br />
==Alternate Radiator Shield for Rovers==<br />
The above design concept for a radiator shield is best suited for buildings. For a rover that would turn to all compass directions rather than traveling all various directions while maintaining a constant compass heading, there is an alternate radiator shield shape. A half paraboloid of revolution about the x=0, z=0 axis. The particular shape is y equals ((x<sup>2</sup>)+(z<sup>2</sup>)) in the range of z is positive and y ranges from 0 to 0.8. That curved surface would be formed of reflective aluminum foil along with the area of the z = 0 plane greater than y = x<sup>2</sup> greater than y = 0.2 and less than y = 0.8. Heat would be radiated out through the area of the plane z = 0 where y is greater than x<sup>2</sup> and less than 0.2. The heat would be reflected out along the positive y direction with the x=0, z=0 axis pointed at the sun. The radiator would have a circular shape on the top of the rover. An articulated section of the radiator shield would be composed of sections of spherical surfaces and a tube connecting the space enclosed by the sections of spherical surfaces to the paraboloid section of the shield. Pivots on opposite poles of the spherical sections would allow their turning about a horizontal axis while the pivots would be mounted on the radiator by a ring bearing allowing rotation about the vertical axis. The axis of the paraboloid should be able to point 360 degrees about to front, rear or side and vary in elevation from forty to ninety degrees from horizontal. When the sun is 40 degrees or more above the horizon, the axis of the paraboloid is pointed at the sun. When the sun is in the sky below 40 degrees of elevation the axis of the paraboloid points to the cold black sky along the [[azimuth]] opposite the sun. <br />
The radiator may need to be a larger fraction of the rover's surface area than indicated by the picture. [[Cameras]], communication [[antennas]], and [[manipulator arms]] are not shown but left to the reader's imagination. <br />
<br />
<br />
==Dust==<br />
There is no need for dust to be a bogeyman that prevents plans for long term operation of devices on Luna. The [[lunar dust]] is certainly nasty stuff, but it can be dealt with. Consider how dust gets stuck to devices on Luna. 1) DIRECT CONTACT: The area of devices that contact Luna must be limited to nonsensitive areas. The wheels of a rover can contact Luna and come into thermal equilibrium with the surface. The wheels would be locked to the axles and the rotary bearing would be within the rover allowing each axle to turn as one with its wheel. Dust picked up by the wheel would fall only on a protruding section of axle. 2) BALLISTIC TRANSFER: The speed of the rover would be limited to prevent dust being thrown in detrimental ballistic trajectories. 3) WIND: There are neither air currents nor wind on Luna. 4) ELECTROSTATIC FORCE: Static charges in dust particles cause the positively charged particles to move toward negative potentials and negatively charged particles to move toward positive potentials. Most of a rover would be covered with aluminum foil maintained at one potential. Antennae of the proper shape and charge can dissipate overall excess charge. Electronic grid elements of various shapes and potentials will either draw dust particles to disposal and so remove them from sensitive spots or simply repel dust particles from those spots. Simulated lunar dust in vacuum chambers on Earth can be treated in various ways to produce charged dust particles. So rover designs can be tested on Earth to be reasonably sure that dust will not settle in sensitive spots. What other way can dust move? It must obey physical laws.<br />
<br />
==Costs and Benefits==<br />
These design considerations certainly complicate the making of a lunar vehicle, but producing a device that will operate five or more years and potentially be repairable should be about 130 times as valuable as one that only works two weeks before turning into a piece of scrap. The least necessary of these design features are the micrometeoroid protective shields. The cost of these features includes the cost of a somewhat larger radiator. The cost must be balanced against the risk. Merely isolating damaged radiator sections may be most cost effective. <br />
<br />
[[Image:Rovr.jpeg|thumb|150px|right|<!--insert caption here-->]]<br />
<br />
==Another Alternate Radiator Shade==<br />
The [[solar cells]] for a rover could be stuck up on a pole and spread out to form an umbrella. The pole would be maneuvered to provide shade for the radiator. The pole should be long enough that the infrared radiation from the bottom of the umbrella mostly misses the rover. The umbrella pole does not need to be so long if a second umbrella on the same pole is between the solar panel and the rover. The second umbrella would be the same diameter as the first, and from the shade of the first umbrella could radiate enough heat so that it would not be a significant source of radiant heat itself. <br />
==Predicting Possible Futures== <br />
There is an article entitled [[Show Stoppers]] that also deals with thermal management. As shown above, thermal management is not a show stopper. As can be shown point by point, there are no true show stoppers listed in the above mentioned article. The people of the United States have choices before them. We can cooperate with other nations in the economic development of Luna at a rate that really cannot be hurried in any reasonable way. We can abandon the development to other nations and a hundred years from now we will be buying communications and [[Solar Power Satellites | space based solar power]] from others. This is a long time frame for politicians to deal with. It is tempting to just deal with immediate problems and let them soak up the relatively small amount that can pay for developing lunar resources at a reasonable rate. Politicians in the United States must follow the people or be out of work. There is time to reach the people. Nothing will happen overnight on Luna. <br />
[[category:Robots]]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Long_Endurance_Rovers&diff=14885Long Endurance Rovers2009-01-07T11:02:05Z<p>Jarogers2001: formatting bug workaround by increasing headings by 1, embedding Table of Contents</p>
<hr />
<div>{|align=left<br />
|__TOC__<br />
|}<br />
<br />
On most of [[Luna]] a roving robot explorer must either be made to endure 354 hour days followed by 354 hour nights or be considered a disposable rover. If we can not build things to continue operating a few years at a stretch on Luna, we might as well forget about a [[lunar base]]. This article suggest sample solutions to show that solutions exist. Better solutions than these will be developed. <br />
<br />
==Thermal Management==<br />
The [[Apollo]] astronauts used expendables for thermal management and recycled nothing. We can not use up expendables at that rate for years for robot explorers. Thermal management for lunar rovers is possible with radiators that do not use up expendables. One scheme is related to the simpler thermal management of a stationary base. At the equatorial region a wall could be set up running east and west and inclined away from the nearest pole by an angle equal to the latitude. The top of such a wall can be covered with reflective [[aluminum]] and that is the only part of the wall that the sun strikes. A trough shaped aluminum [[parabolic reflector]] can be built to shield the wall from the surrounding hot lunar landscape and reject incident sunlight to space. Such a trough would have a cross section in the shape of the curve that graphically represents y=x<sup>2</sup> over the range of x=0.7, y=0.49 to x=-0.7, y=0.49 while the cross section of the wall would be represented by the line segment from x=0, y=0 to x=0 y=0.2. Sunlight that strikes the inside of such a trough will be focused above the wall and return to space. The wall can house a [[radiator]] shaped and coated for high emissivity. This radiator would be effectively shaded from sun and hot lunar terrain and radiate to the cold of space. By circulating a solution of [[water]] and [[ethylene glycol]] through this radiator cooling can be provided for sensitive equipment without throwing out any mass of evaporated liquid. Shrink this concept so that it can be carried by a rover and the rover should survive the day. The rover using such a radiator would best have six or more legs, so it could walk any direction without changing its heading. <br />
<br />
==Staying All Night==<br />
At night an insulative cover can be pulled over the radiator. [[Sintered Brick Construction|Sintered brick shelters]] can be built for spending the night and pumped storage of high pressure [[oxygen]] can run electric generators at night. Until these things can be available a [[radio thermal generator]] can provide heat and power during the night.<br />
<br />
==Micrometeoroid Protection==<br />
<br />
[[Micrometeoroids]] can be ignored until one strikes the radiator. The smallest of leaks would be extremely expensive even if the radiator were compartmentalized to allow one section to loose fluid while the rest of the radiator remains intact. The design should allow a leaking section to be isolated and pumped dry. The location of a leak would be sensed by the decrease of pressure in the leaking section. Beyond this the radiator can be removed from the micrometeoroid threat without too much reducing its effectiveness. Go back to the shape in cross section of the protective parabolic trough. Throw half the parabolic trough away and we are left with the cross section represented by y=x<sup>2</sup> over the range from x=0, y=0 to x=0.7, y=0.49. Replace the left side of the parabolic trough with an aluminum foil box represented in cross section by the line segments x=0, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0; x=-0.2, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0.2; and x=-0.2, y=0.2 to x=0, y=0.2. Put the radiator in this box just to the right of the side represented by x=-0.2, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0.2 and there is no strait line path from the radiator to the sky, but because of aluminum's reflectivity the heat radiated mostly reaches the black sky. Now make the aluminum foil trough and box double thickness with an inch of space between to make an effective micrometeoroid shield. So the radiator is shaded from the hot sun, shaded from the hot terrain and protected from micrometeoroids while still radiating reasonably well to cold space.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Rovr1.jpeg|thumb|400px|<!--insert caption here-->]]<br />
[[Image:Rovr2.jpg|thumb|400px|This image shows the sun's eye view of the radiator shield.]] <br />
[[Image:Rovr3.jpeg|thumb|400px|This image shows the radiator with the shield detached and moved out of the way.]]<br />
<br />
==Alternate Radiator Shield for Rovers==<br />
The above design concept for a radiator shield is best suited for buildings. For a rover that would turn to all compass directions rather than traveling all various directions while maintaining a constant compass heading, there is an alternate radiator shield shape. A half paraboloid of revolution about the x=0, z=0 axis. The particular shape is y equals ((x<sup>2</sup>)+(z<sup>2</sup>)) in the range of z is positive and y ranges from 0 to 0.8. That curved surface would be formed of reflective aluminum foil along with the area of the z = 0 plane greater than y = x<sup>2</sup> greater than y = 0.2 and less than y = 0.8. Heat would be radiated out through the area of the plane z = 0 where y is greater than x<sup>2</sup> and less than 0.2. The heat would be reflected out along the positive y direction with the x=0, z=0 axis pointed at the sun. The radiator would have a circular shape on the top of the rover. An articulated section of the radiator shield would be composed of sections of spherical surfaces and a tube connecting the space enclosed by the sections of spherical surfaces to the paraboloid section of the shield. Pivots on opposite poles of the spherical sections would allow their turning about a horizontal axis while the pivots would be mounted on the radiator by a ring bearing allowing rotation about the vertical axis. The axis of the paraboloid should be able to point 360 degrees about to front, rear or side and vary in elevation from forty to ninety degrees from horizontal. When the sun is 40 degrees or more above the horizon, the axis of the paraboloid is pointed at the sun. When the sun is in the sky below 40 degrees of elevation the axis of the paraboloid points to the cold black sky along the [[azimuth]] opposite the sun. <br />
The radiator may need to be a larger fraction of the rover's surface area than indicated by the picture. [[Cameras]], communication [[antennas]], and [[manipulator arms]] are not shown but left to the reader's imagination. <br />
<br />
<br />
==Dust==<br />
There is no need for dust to be a bogeyman that prevents plans for long term operation of devices on Luna. The [[lunar dust]] is certainly nasty stuff, but it can be dealt with. Consider how dust gets stuck to devices on Luna. 1) DIRECT CONTACT: The area of devices that contact Luna must be limited to nonsensitive areas. The wheels of a rover can contact Luna and come into thermal equilibrium with the surface. The wheels would be locked to the axles and the rotary bearing would be within the rover allowing each axle to turn as one with its wheel. Dust picked up by the wheel would fall only on a protruding section of axle. 2) BALLISTIC TRANSFER: The speed of the rover would be limited to prevent dust being thrown in detrimental ballistic trajectories. 3) WIND: There are neither air currents nor wind on Luna. 4) ELECTROSTATIC FORCE: Static charges in dust particles cause the positively charged particles to move toward negative potentials and negatively charged particles to move toward positive potentials. Most of a rover would be covered with aluminum foil maintained at one potential. Antennae of the proper shape and charge can dissipate overall excess charge. Electronic grid elements of various shapes and potentials will either draw dust particles to disposal and so remove them from sensitive spots or simply repel dust particles from those spots. Simulated lunar dust in vacuum chambers on Earth can be treated in various ways to produce charged dust particles. So rover designs can be tested on Earth to be reasonably sure that dust will not settle in sensitive spots. What other way can dust move? It must obey physical laws.<br />
<br />
==Costs and Benefits==<br />
These design considerations certainly complicate the making of a lunar vehicle, but producing a device that will operate five or more years and potentially be repairable should be about 130 times as valuable as one that only works two weeks before turning into a piece of scrap. The least necessary of these design features are the micrometeoroid protective shields. The cost of these features includes the cost of a somewhat larger radiator. The cost must be balanced against the risk. Merely isolating damaged radiator sections may be most cost effective. <br />
<br />
[[Image:Rovr.jpeg|thumb|150px|<!--insert caption here-->]]<br />
<br />
==Another Alternate Radiator Shade==<br />
The [[solar cells]] for a rover could be stuck up on a pole and spread out to form an umbrella. The pole would be maneuvered to provide shade for the radiator. The pole should be long enough that the infrared radiation from the bottom of the umbrella mostly misses the rover. The umbrella pole does not need to be so long if a second umbrella on the same pole is between the solar panel and the rover. The second umbrella would be the same diameter as the first, and from the shade of the first umbrella could radiate enough heat so that it would not be a significant source of radiant heat itself. <br />
==Predicting Possible Futures== <br />
There is an article entitled [[Show Stoppers]] that also deals with thermal management. As shown above, thermal management is not a show stopper. As can be shown point by point, there are no true show stoppers listed in the above mentioned article. The people of the United States have choices before them. We can cooperate with other nations in the economic development of Luna at a rate that really cannot be hurried in any reasonable way. We can abandon the development to other nations and a hundred years from now we will be buying communications and [[Solar Power Satellites | space based solar power]] from others. This is a long time frame for politicians to deal with. It is tempting to just deal with immediate problems and let them soak up the relatively small amount that can pay for developing lunar resources at a reasonable rate. Politicians in the United States must follow the people or be out of work. There is time to reach the people. Nothing will happen overnight on Luna. <br />
[[category:Robots]]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Long_Endurance_Rovers&diff=14884Long Endurance Rovers2009-01-07T10:57:13Z<p>Jarogers2001: typo fixes, equation superscripts and links</p>
<hr />
<div>==long endurance robotic lunar rovers and manipulators==<br />
On most of [[Luna]] a roving robot explorer must either be made to endure 354 hour days followed by 354 hour nights or be considered a disposable rover. If we can not build things to continue operating a few years at a stretch on Luna, we might as well forget about a [[lunar base]]. This article suggest sample solutions to show that solutions exist. Better solutions than these will be developed. <br />
===Thermal Management===<br />
The [[Apollo]] astronauts used expendables for thermal management and recycled nothing. We can not use up expendables at that rate for years for robot explorers. Thermal management for lunar rovers is possible with radiators that do not use up expendables. One scheme is related to the simpler thermal management of a stationary base. At the equatorial region a wall could be set up running east and west and inclined away from the nearest pole by an angle equal to the latitude. The top of such a wall can be covered with reflective [[aluminum]] and that is the only part of the wall that the sun strikes. A trough shaped aluminum [[parabolic reflector]] can be built to shield the wall from the surrounding hot lunar landscape and reject incident sunlight to space. Such a trough would have a cross section in the shape of the curve that graphically represents y=x<sup>2</sup> over the range of x=0.7, y=0.49 to x=-0.7, y=0.49 while the cross section of the wall would be represented by the line segment from x=0, y=0 to x=0 y=0.2. Sunlight that strikes the inside of such a trough will be focused above the wall and return to space. The wall can house a [[radiator]] shaped and coated for high emissivity. This radiator would be effectively shaded from sun and hot lunar terrain and radiate to the cold of space. By circulating a solution of [[water]] and [[ethylene glycol]] through this radiator cooling can be provided for sensitive equipment without throwing out any mass of evaporated liquid. Shrink this concept so that it can be carried by a rover and the rover should survive the day. The rover using such a radiator would best have six or more legs, so it could walk any direction without changing its heading. <br />
<br />
===Staying All Night===<br />
At night an insulative cover can be pulled over the radiator. [[Sintered Brick Construction|Sintered brick shelters]] can be built for spending the night and pumped storage of high pressure [[oxygen]] can run electric generators at night. Until these things can be available a [[radio thermal generator]] can provide heat and power during the night.<br />
<br />
===Micrometeoroid Protection===<br />
<br />
[[Micrometeoroids]] can be ignored until one strikes the radiator. The smallest of leaks would be extremely expensive even if the radiator were compartmentalized to allow one section to loose fluid while the rest of the radiator remains intact. The design should allow a leaking section to be isolated and pumped dry. The location of a leak would be sensed by the decrease of pressure in the leaking section. Beyond this the radiator can be removed from the micrometeoroid threat without too much reducing its effectiveness. Go back to the shape in cross section of the protective parabolic trough. Throw half the parabolic trough away and we are left with the cross section represented by y=x<sup>2</sup> over the range from x=0, y=0 to x=0.7, y=0.49. Replace the left side of the parabolic trough with an aluminum foil box represented in cross section by the line segments x=0, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0; x=-0.2, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0.2; and x=-0.2, y=0.2 to x=0, y=0.2. Put the radiator in this box just to the right of the side represented by x=-0.2, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0.2 and there is no strait line path from the radiator to the sky, but because of aluminum's reflectivity the heat radiated mostly reaches the black sky. Now make the aluminum foil trough and box double thickness with an inch of space between to make an effective micrometeoroid shield. So the radiator is shaded from the hot sun, shaded from the hot terrain and protected from micrometeoroids while still radiating reasonably well to cold space.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Rovr1.jpeg|thumb|400px|<!--insert caption here-->]]<br />
[[Image:Rovr2.jpg|thumb|400px|This image shows the sun's eye view of the radiator shield.]] <br />
[[Image:Rovr3.jpeg|thumb|400px|This image shows the radiator with the shield detached and moved out of the way.]]<br />
<br />
===Alternate Radiator Shield for Rovers===<br />
The above design concept for a radiator shield is best suited for buildings. For a rover that would turn to all compass directions rather than traveling all various directions while maintaining a constant compass heading, there is an alternate radiator shield shape. A half paraboloid of revolution about the x=0, z=0 axis. The particular shape is y equals ((x<sup>2</sup>)+(z<sup>2</sup>)) in the range of z is positive and y ranges from 0 to 0.8. That curved surface would be formed of reflective aluminum foil along with the area of the z = 0 plane greater than y = x<sup>2</sup> greater than y = 0.2 and less than y = 0.8. Heat would be radiated out through the area of the plane z = 0 where y is greater than x<sup>2</sup> and less than 0.2. The heat would be reflected out along the positive y direction with the x=0, z=0 axis pointed at the sun. The radiator would have a circular shape on the top of the rover. An articulated section of the radiator shield would be composed of sections of spherical surfaces and a tube connecting the space enclosed by the sections of spherical surfaces to the paraboloid section of the shield. Pivots on opposite poles of the spherical sections would allow their turning about a horizontal axis while the pivots would be mounted on the radiator by a ring bearing allowing rotation about the vertical axis. The axis of the paraboloid should be able to point 360 degrees about to front, rear or side and vary in elevation from forty to ninety degrees from horizontal. When the sun is 40 degrees or more above the horizon, the axis of the paraboloid is pointed at the sun. When the sun is in the sky below 40 degrees of elevation the axis of the paraboloid points to the cold black sky along the [[azimuth]] opposite the sun. <br />
The radiator may need to be a larger fraction of the rover's surface area than indicated by the picture. [[Cameras]], communication [[antennas]], and [[manipulator arms]] are not shown but left to the reader's imagination. <br />
<br />
<br />
===Dust===<br />
There is no need for dust to be a bogeyman that prevents plans for long term operation of devices on Luna. The [[lunar dust]] is certainly nasty stuff, but it can be dealt with. Consider how dust gets stuck to devices on Luna. 1) DIRECT CONTACT: The area of devices that contact Luna must be limited to nonsensitive areas. The wheels of a rover can contact Luna and come into thermal equilibrium with the surface. The wheels would be locked to the axles and the rotary bearing would be within the rover allowing each axle to turn as one with its wheel. Dust picked up by the wheel would fall only on a protruding section of axle. 2) BALLISTIC TRANSFER: The speed of the rover would be limited to prevent dust being thrown in detrimental ballistic trajectories. 3) WIND: There are neither air currents nor wind on Luna. 4) ELECTROSTATIC FORCE: Static charges in dust particles cause the positively charged particles to move toward negative potentials and negatively charged particles to move toward positive potentials. Most of a rover would be covered with aluminum foil maintained at one potential. Antennae of the proper shape and charge can dissipate overall excess charge. Electronic grid elements of various shapes and potentials will either draw dust particles to disposal and so remove them from sensitive spots or simply repel dust particles from those spots. Simulated lunar dust in vacuum chambers on Earth can be treated in various ways to produce charged dust particles. So rover designs can be tested on Earth to be reasonably sure that dust will not settle in sensitive spots. What other way can dust move? It must obey physical laws.<br />
<br />
===Costs and Benefits===<br />
These design considerations certainly complicate the making of a lunar vehicle, but producing a device that will operate five or more years and potentially be repairable should be about 130 times as valuable as one that only works two weeks before turning into a piece of scrap. The least necessary of these design features are the micrometeoroid protective shields. The cost of these features includes the cost of a somewhat larger radiator. The cost must be balanced against the risk. Merely isolating damaged radiator sections may be most cost effective. <br />
<br />
[[Image:Rovr.jpeg|thumb|150px|<!--insert caption here-->]]<br />
<br />
==Another Alternate Radiator Shade==<br />
The [[solar cells]] for a rover could be stuck up on a pole and spread out to form an umbrella. The pole would be maneuvered to provide shade for the radiator. The pole should be long enough that the infrared radiation from the bottom of the umbrella mostly misses the rover. The umbrella pole does not need to be so long if a second umbrella on the same pole is between the solar panel and the rover. The second umbrella would be the same diameter as the first, and from the shade of the first umbrella could radiate enough heat so that it would not be a significant source of radiant heat itself. <br />
==Predicting Possible Futures== <br />
There is an article entitled [[Show Stoppers]] that also deals with thermal management. As shown above, thermal management is not a show stopper. As can be shown point by point, there are no true show stoppers listed in the above mentioned article. The people of the United States have choices before them. We can cooperate with other nations in the economic development of Luna at a rate that really cannot be hurried in any reasonable way. We can abandon the development to other nations and a hundred years from now we will be buying communications and [[Solar Power Satellites | space based solar power]] from others. This is a long time frame for politicians to deal with. It is tempting to just deal with immediate problems and let them soak up the relatively small amount that can pay for developing lunar resources at a reasonable rate. Politicians in the United States must follow the people or be out of work. There is time to reach the people. Nothing will happen overnight on Luna. <br />
[[category:Robots]]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Long_Endurance_Rovers&diff=14883Long Endurance Rovers2009-01-07T10:45:18Z<p>Jarogers2001: formatting graphics for Farred.</p>
<hr />
<div>==long endurance robotic lunar rovers and manipulators==<br />
On most of Luna a roving robot explorer must either be made to endure 354 hour days followed by 354 hour nights or be considered a disposable rover. If we can not build things to continue operating a few years at a stretch on Luna, we might as well forget about a lunar base. This article suggest sample solutions to show that solutions exist. Better sollutions than these will be developed. <br />
===Thermal Management===<br />
The Apollo astronauts used expendables for thermal management and recycled nothing. We can not use up expendables at that rate for years for robot explorers. Thermal management for lunar rovers is possible with radiators that do not use up expendables. One scheme is related to the simpler thermal management of a stationary base. At the equatorial region a wall could be set up running east and west and inclined away from the nearest pole by an angle equal to the latitude. The top of such a wall can be covered with reflective aluminum and that is the only part of the wall that the sun strikes. A trough shaped aluminum parabolic reflector can be built to shield the wall from the surrounding hot lunar landscape and reject incident sunlight to space. Such a trough would have a cross section in the shape of the curve that graphically represents y=x^2 over the range of x=0.7, y=0.49 to x=-0.7, y=0.49 while the cross section of the wall would be represented by the line segment from x=0, y=0 to x=0 y=0.2. Sunlight that strikes the inside of such a trough will be focused above the wall and return to space. The wall can house a radiator shaped and coated for high emissivity. This radiator would be effectively shaded from sun and hot lunar terrain and radiate to the cold of space. By circulating a solution of water and ethylene glycol through this radiator cooling can be provided for sensitive equipment without throwing out any mass of evaporated liquid. Shrink this concept so that it can be carried by a rover and the rover should survive the day. The rover using such a radiator would best have six or more legs, so it could walk any direction without changing its heading. <br />
<br />
===Staying All Night===<br />
At night an insulative cover can be pulled over the radiator. [[Sintered Brick Construction|Sintered brick shelters]] can be built for spending the night and pumped storage of high pressure oxygen can run electric generators at night. Until these things can be available a radio thermal generator can provide heat and power during the night.<br />
<br />
===Micrometeoroid Protection===<br />
<br />
Micrometeoroids can be ignored until one strikes the radiator. The smallest of leaks would be extremely expensive even if the radiator were compartmentalized to allow one section to loose fluid while the rest of the radiator remains intact. The design should allow a leaking section to be isolated and pumped dry. The location of a leak would be sensed by the decrease of pressure in the leaking section. Beyond this the radiator can be removed from the micrometeoroid threat without too much reducing its effectiveness. Go back to the shape in cross section of the protective parabolic trough. Throw half the parabolic trough away and we are left with the cross section represented by y=x^2 over the range from x=0, y=0 to x=0.7, y=0.49. Replace the left side of the parabolic trough with an aluminum foil box represented in cross section by the line segments x=0, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0; x=-0.2, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0.2; and x=-0.2, y=0.2 to x=0, y=0.2. Put the radiator in this box just to the right of the side represented by x=-0.2, y=0 to x=-0.2, y=0.2 and there is no strait line path from the radiator to the sky, but because of aluminum's reflectivity the heat radiated mostly reaches the black sky. Now make the aluminum foil trough and box double thickness with an inch of space between to make an effective micrometeoroid shield. So the radiator is shaded from the hot sun, shaded from the hot terrain and protected from micrometeoroids while still radiating reasonably well to cold space.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Rovr1.jpeg|thumb|400px|<!--insert caption here-->]]<br />
[[Image:Rovr2.jpg|thumb|400px|This image shows the sun's eye view of the radiator shield.]] <br />
[[Image:Rovr3.jpeg|thumb|400px|This image shows the radiator with the shield detached and moved out of the way.]]<br />
<br />
===Alternate Radiator Shield for Rovers===<br />
The above design concept for a radiator shield is best suited for buildings. For a rover that would turn to all compass directions rather than traveling all various directions while maintaining a constant compass heading, there is an alternate radiator shield shape. A half paraboloid of revolution about the x=0, z=0 axis. The particular shape is y equals ((x^2)+(z^2)) in the range of z is positive and y ranges from 0 to 0.8. That curved surface would be formed of reflective aluminum foil along with the area of the z = 0 plane greater than y = x^2 greater than y = 0.2 and less than y = 0.8. Heat would be radiated out through the area of the plane z = 0 where y is greater than x^2 and less than 0.2. The heat would be reflected out along the positive y direction with the x=0, z=0 axis pointed at the sun. The radiator would have a circular shape on the top of the rover. An articulated section of the radiator shield would be composed of sections of spherical surfaces and a tube connecting the space enclosed by the sections of spherical surfaces to the paraboloid section of the shield. Pivots on opposite poles of the spherical sections would allow their turning about a horizontal axis while the pivots would be mounted on the radiator by a ring bearing allowing rotation about the vertical axis. The axis of the paraboloid should be able to point 360 degrees about to front, rear or side and vary in elevation from forty to ninety degrees from horizontal. When the sun is 40 degrees or more above the horizon, the axis of the paraboloid is pointed at the sun. When the sun is in the sky below 40 degrees of elevation the axis of the paraboloid points to the cold black sky along the azimuth opposite the sun. <br />
The radiator may need to be a larger fraction of the rover's surface area than indicated by the picture. Cameras, comunication antenas, and manipulator arms are not shown but left to the reader's imagination. <br />
<br />
<br />
===Dust===<br />
There is no need for dust to be a bogeyman that prevents plans for long term operation of devices on Luna. The lunar dust is certainly nasty stuff, but it can be dealt with. Consider how dust gets stuck to devices on Luna. 1) DIRECT CONTACT: The area of devices that contact Luna must be limited to nonsensitive areas. The wheels of a rover can contact Luna and come into thermal equilibrium with the surface. The wheels would be locked to the axles and the rotary bearing would be within the rover allowing each axle to turn as one with its wheel. Dust picked up by the wheel would fall only on a protruding section of axle. 2) BALLISTIC TRANSFER: The speed of the rover would be limited to prevent dust being thrown in detrimental ballistic trajectories. 3) WIND: There are neither air currents nor wind on Luna. 4) ELECTROSTATIC FORCE: Static charges in dust particles cause the positively charged particles to move toward negative potentials and negatively charged particles to move toward positive potentials. Most of a rover would be covered with aluminum foil maintained at one potential. Antennae of the proper shape and charge can dissipate overall excess charge. Electronic grid elements of various shapes and potentials will either draw dust particles to disposal and so remove them from sensitive spots or simply repel dust particles from those spots. Simulated lunar dust in vacuum chambers on Earth can be treated in various ways to produce charged dust particles. So rover designs can be tested on Earth to be reasonably sure that dust will not settle in sensitive spots. What other way can dust move? It must obey physical laws.<br />
<br />
===Costs and Benefits===<br />
These design considerations certainly complicate the making of a lunar vehicle, but producing a device that will operate five or more years and potentially be repairable should be about 130 times as valuable as one that only works two weeks before turning into a piece of scrap. The least necessary of these design features are the micrometeoroid protective shields. The cost of these features includes the cost of a somewhat larger radiator. The cost must be balanced against the risk. Merely isolating damaged radiator sections may be most cost effective. <br />
<br />
[[Image:Rovr.jpeg|thumb|150px|<!--insert caption here-->]]<br />
<br />
==Another Alternate Radiator Shade==<br />
The solar cells for a rover could be stuck up on a pole and spread out to form an umbrella. The pole would be manuvered to provide shade for the radiator. The pole should be long enough that the infrared radiation from the bottom of the umbrella mostly misses the rover. The umbrella pole does not need to be so long if a second umbrella on the same pole is between the solar panel and the rover. The second umbrella would be the same diameter as the first, and from the shade of the first umbrella could radiate enough heat so that it would not be a significant source of radiant heat itself. <br />
==Predicting Possible Futures== <br />
There is an article entitled [[Show Stoppers]] that also deals with thermal management. As shown above, thermal management is not a show stopper. As can be shown point by point, there are no true show stoppers listed in the above mentioned article. The people of the United States have choices before them. We can cooperate with other nations in the economic development of Luna at a rate that really cannot be hurried in any reasonable way. We can abandon the development to other nations and a hundred years from now we will be buying communications and space based solar power from others. This is a long time frame for politicians to deal with. It is tempting to just deal with immediate problems and let them soak up the relatively small amount that can pay for developing lunar resources at a reasonable rate. Politicians in the United States must follow the people or be out of work. There is time to reach the people. Nothing will happen overnight on Luna. <br />
[[category:Robots]]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Team_FREDNET&diff=14882Talk:Team FREDNET2009-01-07T10:32:03Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Requests for information */ Charles, is this covered in the books you listed?</p>
<hr />
<div>== Requests for information ==<br />
Hello, I am a volunteer of Team FREDNET coordinating communications with Lunarpedia. We regularly need information about the space and lunar environment to support development of our lunar mission, and would be very appreciative if Lunarpedia contributors are able to help us out. I'm adding requests for such information in the list below, in order of importance (most important at top). Not all requests for information are 'mission critical', but in any event it will help draw as complete a picture of the mission environment as possible.--[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 13:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* '''Radiation environment throughout mission'''. We need a thorough characterization of the radiation environment throughout a mission from the Earth to the Moon, including on Earth, in transit and on the Moon. It must be detailed enough to allow our engineers to design appropriate radiation shielding from the information. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 14:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::If you are interested in how to build space hardware for space environments, a good place to start is this book:<br />
::::Space Mission Analysis and Design (Third Edition) (Softback) [James R. Wertz and Wiley J. Larson, eds. - 1999]; 969 pages, 1999, Microcosm/Kluwer; ISBN 978-1881883104 [http://astrobooks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=942];<br />
:::Then this: <br />
::::Guide to Modeling Earth's Trapped Radiation Environment (Softback) [AIAA - 1999] 55 pgs, 1999, AIAA<br />
::::ISBN 1-56347-349-6<br />
:::Then this:<br />
::::Introduction to the Space Environment (Second Edition) (Softback) [Thomas F. Tascione - 1994] 0445S<br />
::::Thomas F. Tascione<br />
::::151 pgs, 1994, Krieger Publishing<br />
::::ISBN 978-0894640445<br />
<br />
* '''Designers of Apollo RTGs'''. We have been considering using the SNAP-27 RTGs left by Apollo 12 through 17 on the lunar surface as a heat source during lunar night - even today these radioactive containers still radiate a considerable amount of heat to their surroundings. To determine the feasibility of using the RTGs like that, we would like to get in touch with the original designers of the Apollo SNAP-27 RTG's to ask them about the characteristics of the RTG's on the lunar surface so we can produce a thermal model of the units. We need contact information for these persons. All we currently know is that they worked at General Electric. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 15:50, 4 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::The RTGs are US government property. You will need to discuss their usage with various US federal agencies with jurisdiction, e.g. NOAA, State Dept, DOE, NASA. Technology of RTG will involve ITAR issues which will require export license for non-US citizens. Contacting GE will do no good, they will simply direct you the US federal agencies. Good luck. [[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]]<br />
:::::Thanks, but we are not contemplating using the RTGs. We are considering using the heat dissipating from them naturally by radioactive decay. We are not trying to get in touch with General Electric or any federal agencies who may own the RTGs, but rather the individuals who designed the units, so we can produce a thermal model of them to determine the feasibility of utilizing this otherwise wasted energy. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 12:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
* '''Regolith composition at Apollo landing sites'''. The composition of regolith varies greatly with location on the Moon. We need to know the composition of the surface material at our landing site to calculate its frictional properties, which in turn will be used to design our rover. We have not selected a landing site yet, but it will most likely be one of the heritage Apollo landing sites. Hence, we need to know the exact geological composition of the lunar regolith at these sites. Since surface samples were taken by the Apollo astronauts, this information should be available from NASA in some form.--[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 13:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-sampcats.html Apollo Sample Catalogs]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/TM-2005-213610.pdf The Effects of Lunar Dust on EVA Systems During the Apollo Missions]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/TP-2006-213726.pdf The Apollo Experience Lessons Learned for Constellation Lunar Dust Management]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/19770020109_1977020109.pdf Lunar Sample Studies]<br />
::::[[JSC-1]] - ''Approximately 27,000 lb of JSC-1 simulant is currently available for distribution to qualified investigators. The only cost is for shipping. The material is stored at the Texas A&M Lunar Soil Simulant Laboratory. Investigators desiring a portion of this simulant should address their requests to Dr. Walter Boles, Department of Civil Engineering, Texas A&M University, College Station, TX 77843 (Telephone 409-845-2493, fax 409-862-2800).''<br />
::::[[Lunar Dust]]<br />
:::::Thanks for the links - they have been integrated [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Tasks:Geological_composition_of_regolith_at_Apollo_sites here] and [http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Talk:Lunar_Environment here] and [http://forum.xprize.frednet.com/viewtopic.php?p=2492#2492 here]. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 15:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
* '''Illuminance on the lunar surface'''. We are trying to figure out how (particularly, how brightly) objects on the lunar surface (not the lunar surface itself) are illuminated at various times of lunar day. We need this information to design visual systems (cameras) for our lander and rover. At least three sources of illuminance has to be taken into consideration: sunshine (light from the Sun), earthshine (sunlight reflected by Earth), and moonshine (sunlight reflected by the lunar surface itself). --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 14:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I'm at a loss on this one. Charles, is this covered in the books you listed? - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 10:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Helium&diff=14881Helium2009-01-07T10:13:47Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Related Articles */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Element |<br />
name=Helium |<br />
symbol=He |<br />
available=trace |<br />
need= |<br />
number=2 |<br />
mass=4.002602 |<br />
group=18 |<br />
period=1 |<br />
phase=Gas |<br />
series=Noble gases |<br />
density=0.1786 g/L |<br />
melts=0.95K,<BR/>-272.2°C,<BR/>-458.0°F |<br />
boils=4.22K,<BR/>-268.93°C,<BR/>-452.07°F |<br />
isotopes=3<BR/>4 |<br />
prior=[[Hydrogen|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">H</FONT>]] |<br />
next=[[Lithium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Li</FONT>]] |<br />
above=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
aprior=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
anext=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
below=[[Neon|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Ne</FONT>]] |<br />
bprior=[[Fluorine|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">F</FONT>]] |<br />
bnext=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
radius=31 pm |<br />
bohr= |<br />
covalent=32 |<br />
vdwr=140 |<br />
irad=- |<br />
ipot=24.59 |<br />
econfig=1s<sup>2</sup> |<br />
eshell=2 |<br />
enega= |<br />
eaffin=Unstable anion |<br />
oxstat=- |<br />
magn= |<br />
cryst=Hexagonal or body centered cubic |<br />
}}<br />
'''Helium''' is a component of the [[solar wind]], and hence is one of the [[volatiles]] found (in parts per million level) in [[Lunar regolith]]. It is a Noble gas in group 18 and is the second element in the [[Periodic Table of the Elements]]. This element has two stable isotopes: 3 and 4.<br />
<br />
The most common isotope, Helium-4, has a nucleus of two protons and two neutrons, and two electrons. The less common isotope Helium-3 has two protons and one neutron.<br />
<br />
==<sup>3</sup>He==<br />
''Helium 3'' is a rare isotope of the element [[Helium]], consisting of a nucleus with two protons and one neutron. The approved abbreviation (for physics use) for Helium-3 is <sup>3</sup>He, however, the abbreviation He3 is also seen. Since most of the Earth's helium is produced by alpha-decay of Uranium isotopes, resulting in <sup>4</sup>He (the most common isotope of Helium), <sup>3</sup>He is rare on Earth. It is comparatively more abundant in non-terrestrial sources, although even in non-terrestrial sources, only a small fraction of helium atoms are Helium 3. The [[Moon]] is a source of <sup>3</sup>He, which is implanted into the lunar [[regolith]] by the [[solar wind]]. Helium is present in the soil in quantities of ten to a hundred (weight) parts per million, and 0.003 to 1 percent of this amount (depending on soil) is <sup>3</sup>He.<br />
<br />
<br />
===Helium 3 as a Fusion Reaction Fuel===<br />
<br />
It has been proposed that <sup>3</sup>He might be a possible fuel for a [[Nuclear Fusion]] reactor to produce energy using the thermo-nuclear reaction (Deuterium-Helium-3):<br />
<br />
<sup>2</sup>H + <sup>3</sup>He --> <sup>4</sup>He + <sup>1</sup>H<sup>+</sup><br />
<br />
This reaction has the advantage over the more-commonly proposed Deuterium-Tritium fusion reaction <br />
<br />
(<sup>2</sup>H + <sup>3</sup>H) --> <sup>4</sup>He + Neutron<br />
<br />
that the reaction produces only charged particles (an alpha particle and a proton), with no production of neutrons. However, the corresponding difficulty is that the <sup>2</sup>H -<sup>3</sup>He reaction has an ignition barrier that is twice as high as the barrier to igniting <sup>2</sup>H-<sup>3</sup>H fusion, because of the fact that the Helium nucleus has twice the charge of a Tritium nucleus. Gerald Kulcinski's group at the Fusion Technology Institute of the [[University of Wisconsin-Madison]] has operated an experimental <sup>2</sup>H-<sup>3</sup>He fusion reactor for an extended period, on a non-governmental research budget <ref>[http://www.thespacereview.com/article/536/1 Hedman, Eric; (Monday, January 16, 2006). "A fascinating hour with Gerald Kulcinski" (HTML). The Space Review. Jeff Foust, Ed. Retrieved on 2007-03-04]</ref>, however the reactor has not achieved energy balance or "break even". So far, <sup>2</sup>H-<sup>3</sup>He fusion has not yet demonstrated net energy production ("break even"). The development of commercial <sup>2</sup>H-<sup>3</sup>He reactors is dependent upon demonstrating "break even."<br />
<br />
===Value of Lunar Helium 3 in Today's Market===<br />
<br />
Since He3 has a high market value today, it might be worth collecting He3 from the Moon today simply to sell into the existing terrestrial market. Current market price for He3 is about $46,500 per troy ounce ($1500/gram, $1.5M/kg), more than 120 times the value per unit weight of [[Gold]] and over eight times the value of [[Rhodium]].<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
*Can the cost of recovering He3 from the lunar surface be reduced to that level, e.g. $1500 per gram?<br />
*What would be the capital cost of setting up a small He3 production facility on Luna?<br />
*Would it depress the market price today? This depends on the size of the market, and there is little data.<br />
<br />
The US [[Tritium]] and helium-3 stockpile sizes are classified, because they give a hint as to how many US nuclear weapons are still functional. According to Wikipedia “approximately 150 kilograms of it (He3) have resulted from decay of US [[Tritium]] production since 1955.” One could assume a similar quantity has been accumulated in the ex-USSR, and perhaps additionally from other thermonuclear powers (UK, France, China).<br />
<br />
Today, the world's supply of Helium-3 can be counted in hundreds of kilograms, and the value of 100 kg would be $150M. So it may be assumed that the total stockpile value today is roughly about half a billion USD. The US DOE does sell He3 commercially, but how much of the present stockpile has actually been sold on the open market is an open question. Assuming that someone were to start at the level of collecting 100kg of He3 from the Moon and assume its value would be $150M, the cost of soft landing even a small probe on to the lunar surface may easily cost that much or more. How much He3 a small lander manufacture and how many grams per day have yet to be determined and production will rely on the method of processing.<br />
<br />
A [[Volatiles|commonly discussed method]] is cooking the [[regolith]] to about 1400 degrees Fahrenheit or 760 degrees Celsius<ref>[http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/pdf/fdm817.pdf H. H. Schmitt et al; (November 1989). "Mining Helium-3 from the Moon - A Solution to the Earth's Energy Needs in the 21st Century."]</ref>. They describe three steps:<br />
1) heat to a few hundred deg C to drive off the volatiles 2) fractional distillation to decant off the heavy volatiles 3) separate He3 from the He4 using the standard superleak process. Two challenges are devising a method to process large quantities of regolith as the He3 is at a low concentration, and providing a high power thermally efficient heat source on the Moon. This would need a large amount of energy, requiring the lander to have either a nuclear source (either [[Nuclear Fission]] or [[RTG]]), or large [[Solar Power|solar panels]]. [[Basalt]] has specific heat capacity of 0.24 cal/g/degreeC or 0.84 KJ/kg degreeK. To heat 1kg of basalt by 700 degrees Celsius requires about 600 KJ. The highest concentration of He3 in the Maria regions is 0.01ppm in the regolith. This means that 600 KJ will yield 0.01 milligrams of He3. Using these numbers, a 600 Watt power source could produce 0.01 milligrams of He3 per second = 0.6 mg/minute = 36mg/hour = 864mg/day = 315 grams per year. Whether this business concept is viable depends on how quickly a group or entity wants to amortize their investment. If an arbitrary target is to produce 100 kg He3 in one year, then a power source of about 200 KW would be needed. That would give a revenue stream of $150M per year '''if''' the He3 market does not become flooded and the price drops.<br />
<br />
A [[Solar Power]] based system would be in darkness 50% of the time, so would need to operate at 400 KW. If it were on a lunar polar mountain top it might be in near continuous illumination. Assuming a best case scenario of 100% lighting, 10% photo voltaic efficiency and a fully steerable array, this would need an area of about 2,000 square meters, or about 45 meters on a square side. A simple non-PV solar reflector could be near 100% efficient, needing only 200 square meters or about 14 meters on a square side, or aperture. Setting up a 14 meter aperture mirror on the Moon would be a major engineering challenge, although it would not need to be particularly accurate as in the case of an astronomical telescope mirror.<br />
<br />
Open Questions:<br />
*How much would a 14 meter aperture mirror weigh?<br />
*Would a [[Nuclear Fission]] power plant have better performance per kilogram of lander payload?<br />
<br />
More thermal analysis needs to be done, as it may be possible to recycle the heat using some form of cogeneration. One possibility is to use the hot processed regolith to pre-heat the next incoming batch of raw dust, and thus reduce the number of solar joules needed. This could greatly reduce the size of solar array needed and/or significantly increase the system mass throughput.<br />
<br />
== Applications ==<br />
[[Image:Laser_DSC09088.JPG|thumb|right|px|An He-Ne laser]]<br />
*Medical Lung Imaging<br />
:According to Wikipedia: <br />
:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium_3<br />
:Details on this experimental application of He3: http://cerncourier.com/main/article/41/8/14<br />
<br />
{{expandsec}}<br />
<br />
==Related Articles==<br />
<br />
*[[Resource Values | Value of commodities (including He3)]]<br />
*[[Volatiles]]<br />
*[[Nuclear Fusion]]<br />
*[[Solar wind]]<br />
<br />
== External Links ==<br />
*[http://www.tunl.duke.edu/nucldata/HTML/A=3/03He_1987.shtml Nuclear data]<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
<br />
{{Cleanup}}<br />
[[Category:Gases]]<br />
[[Category:Noble Gases]]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=In_Situ_Resource_Utilization&diff=14880In Situ Resource Utilization2009-01-07T10:13:24Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Lunar Gasses (other than oxygen) */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Resource Stub}}<br />
{{Wikify}}<br />
<br />
'''In Situ Resource Utilization''' (''ISRU'') refers to the production of useful materials from the resources available at a given location. The phrase is from the Latin ''in situ'', meaning "at the site", or "in place." ISRU can be categorized into production of materials useful at the current location, primarily: life support, [[In-Situ Propellant Production | propellant]], radiation shielding, [[List of Construction Materials | construction]] and structural materials, and raw materials for other production useful for habitat expansion.<br />
<br />
It may be possible to commercialize these processes to produce commodity materials for use elsewhere in space, including propellent for further colonization and exploration as well as materials for habitats and spacecraft. Some of the commodities may also be sold back to earth. High value materials include rare isotopes deposited by the solar wind and [[Platinum Group Metals | platinum group metals]]. Bulk commodities consist of nickel and iron mined from asteroids, oxygen, aluminum and titanium from the moon, and other materials for manufacture of structures in space such as [[solar power satellites]].<br />
<br />
One form of ISRU is [[In-Situ Propellant Production]], (''ISPP''), or manufacture of rocket fuel from local resources; the term ISPP is no longer currently much used, in favor of the more generic terminology ISRU, which incorporates use of in-situ resources for uses other than propellant.<br />
<br />
<br />
==ISRU possible on the moon==<br />
<br><br />
===Construction Materials===<br />
*[[Cast Basalt]]<BR><br />
*[[Sulfurous Concrete]]<br />
*[[Sintered Regolith]]<br />
*[[Steam Injected Concrete]]<br />
<br />
===Lunar Oxygen ([[LUNOX]])===<br />
(see also listing on [[LUNOX]] page)<br />
*[[Ilmenite Reduction]]<br />
*[[Glass Reduction]]<br />
*[[Fluorine reaction]]<br />
*[[Magma electrolysis]]<br />
*[[Aluminum reduction]]<br />
*[[Carbothermal reduction]]<br />
*[[Methane reduction]]<br />
<br />
===Metals===<br />
* [[Free Iron]]<br />
* [[Aluminum]]<br />
* [[Magnesium]]<br />
* [[Titanium]]<br />
<br />
===Lunar Gasses (other than oxygen)===<br />
*'''[[Hydrogen]]''' from electrolysis of Lunar Polar water and regolith deposits<br />
*[[Helium]] including Helium 3.<br />
*[[Argon]]<br />
*[[Nitrogen]]<br />
*[[Neon]]<br />
*[[Radon]]<br />
*[[Carbon Dioxide]]<br />
*[[Carbon Monoxide]]<br />
*[[Methane]]<br />
*[[Hydrogen Sulfide]]<br />
<br />
*[[Volatiles]]<br />
<br />
==Related Articles==<br />
*[[LUNOX]]<br />
*[[Ore Bodies]]<br />
*[[Resource Values | Value of commodities]]<br />
*[[Lunar outgassing]]<br />
*[[List of Resources]]<br />
*[[List of Construction Materials]]<br />
<br />
==External Links==<br />
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Situ_Resource_Utilization In Situ Resource Utilization at Wikipedia]<br />
*[http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/moon_mining_041110.html Mining the moon article at Space.com]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:ISRU]]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Helium&diff=14879Helium2009-01-07T10:10:20Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Element |<br />
name=Helium |<br />
symbol=He |<br />
available=trace |<br />
need= |<br />
number=2 |<br />
mass=4.002602 |<br />
group=18 |<br />
period=1 |<br />
phase=Gas |<br />
series=Noble gases |<br />
density=0.1786 g/L |<br />
melts=0.95K,<BR/>-272.2°C,<BR/>-458.0°F |<br />
boils=4.22K,<BR/>-268.93°C,<BR/>-452.07°F |<br />
isotopes=3<BR/>4 |<br />
prior=[[Hydrogen|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">H</FONT>]] |<br />
next=[[Lithium|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Li</FONT>]] |<br />
above=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
aprior=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
anext=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
below=[[Neon|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">Ne</FONT>]] |<br />
bprior=[[Fluorine|<FONT color="#7F7FFF">F</FONT>]] |<br />
bnext=<SMALL><FONT color="#7F7F7F">N/A</FONT></SMALL> |<br />
radius=31 pm |<br />
bohr= |<br />
covalent=32 |<br />
vdwr=140 |<br />
irad=- |<br />
ipot=24.59 |<br />
econfig=1s<sup>2</sup> |<br />
eshell=2 |<br />
enega= |<br />
eaffin=Unstable anion |<br />
oxstat=- |<br />
magn= |<br />
cryst=Hexagonal or body centered cubic |<br />
}}<br />
'''Helium''' is a component of the [[solar wind]], and hence is one of the [[volatiles]] found (in parts per million level) in [[Lunar regolith]]. It is a Noble gas in group 18 and is the second element in the [[Periodic Table of the Elements]]. This element has two stable isotopes: 3 and 4.<br />
<br />
The most common isotope, Helium-4, has a nucleus of two protons and two neutrons, and two electrons. The less common isotope Helium-3 has two protons and one neutron.<br />
<br />
==<sup>3</sup>He==<br />
''Helium 3'' is a rare isotope of the element [[Helium]], consisting of a nucleus with two protons and one neutron. The approved abbreviation (for physics use) for Helium-3 is <sup>3</sup>He, however, the abbreviation He3 is also seen. Since most of the Earth's helium is produced by alpha-decay of Uranium isotopes, resulting in <sup>4</sup>He (the most common isotope of Helium), <sup>3</sup>He is rare on Earth. It is comparatively more abundant in non-terrestrial sources, although even in non-terrestrial sources, only a small fraction of helium atoms are Helium 3. The [[Moon]] is a source of <sup>3</sup>He, which is implanted into the lunar [[regolith]] by the [[solar wind]]. Helium is present in the soil in quantities of ten to a hundred (weight) parts per million, and 0.003 to 1 percent of this amount (depending on soil) is <sup>3</sup>He.<br />
<br />
<br />
===Helium 3 as a Fusion Reaction Fuel===<br />
<br />
It has been proposed that <sup>3</sup>He might be a possible fuel for a [[Nuclear Fusion]] reactor to produce energy using the thermo-nuclear reaction (Deuterium-Helium-3):<br />
<br />
<sup>2</sup>H + <sup>3</sup>He --> <sup>4</sup>He + <sup>1</sup>H<sup>+</sup><br />
<br />
This reaction has the advantage over the more-commonly proposed Deuterium-Tritium fusion reaction <br />
<br />
(<sup>2</sup>H + <sup>3</sup>H) --> <sup>4</sup>He + Neutron<br />
<br />
that the reaction produces only charged particles (an alpha particle and a proton), with no production of neutrons. However, the corresponding difficulty is that the <sup>2</sup>H -<sup>3</sup>He reaction has an ignition barrier that is twice as high as the barrier to igniting <sup>2</sup>H-<sup>3</sup>H fusion, because of the fact that the Helium nucleus has twice the charge of a Tritium nucleus. Gerald Kulcinski's group at the Fusion Technology Institute of the [[University of Wisconsin-Madison]] has operated an experimental <sup>2</sup>H-<sup>3</sup>He fusion reactor for an extended period, on a non-governmental research budget <ref>[http://www.thespacereview.com/article/536/1 Hedman, Eric; (Monday, January 16, 2006). "A fascinating hour with Gerald Kulcinski" (HTML). The Space Review. Jeff Foust, Ed. Retrieved on 2007-03-04]</ref>, however the reactor has not achieved energy balance or "break even". So far, <sup>2</sup>H-<sup>3</sup>He fusion has not yet demonstrated net energy production ("break even"). The development of commercial <sup>2</sup>H-<sup>3</sup>He reactors is dependent upon demonstrating "break even."<br />
<br />
===Value of Lunar Helium 3 in Today's Market===<br />
<br />
Since He3 has a high market value today, it might be worth collecting He3 from the Moon today simply to sell into the existing terrestrial market. Current market price for He3 is about $46,500 per troy ounce ($1500/gram, $1.5M/kg), more than 120 times the value per unit weight of [[Gold]] and over eight times the value of [[Rhodium]].<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
*Can the cost of recovering He3 from the lunar surface be reduced to that level, e.g. $1500 per gram?<br />
*What would be the capital cost of setting up a small He3 production facility on Luna?<br />
*Would it depress the market price today? This depends on the size of the market, and there is little data.<br />
<br />
The US [[Tritium]] and helium-3 stockpile sizes are classified, because they give a hint as to how many US nuclear weapons are still functional. According to Wikipedia “approximately 150 kilograms of it (He3) have resulted from decay of US [[Tritium]] production since 1955.” One could assume a similar quantity has been accumulated in the ex-USSR, and perhaps additionally from other thermonuclear powers (UK, France, China).<br />
<br />
Today, the world's supply of Helium-3 can be counted in hundreds of kilograms, and the value of 100 kg would be $150M. So it may be assumed that the total stockpile value today is roughly about half a billion USD. The US DOE does sell He3 commercially, but how much of the present stockpile has actually been sold on the open market is an open question. Assuming that someone were to start at the level of collecting 100kg of He3 from the Moon and assume its value would be $150M, the cost of soft landing even a small probe on to the lunar surface may easily cost that much or more. How much He3 a small lander manufacture and how many grams per day have yet to be determined and production will rely on the method of processing.<br />
<br />
A [[Volatiles|commonly discussed method]] is cooking the [[regolith]] to about 1400 degrees Fahrenheit or 760 degrees Celsius<ref>[http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/pdf/fdm817.pdf H. H. Schmitt et al; (November 1989). "Mining Helium-3 from the Moon - A Solution to the Earth's Energy Needs in the 21st Century."]</ref>. They describe three steps:<br />
1) heat to a few hundred deg C to drive off the volatiles 2) fractional distillation to decant off the heavy volatiles 3) separate He3 from the He4 using the standard superleak process. Two challenges are devising a method to process large quantities of regolith as the He3 is at a low concentration, and providing a high power thermally efficient heat source on the Moon. This would need a large amount of energy, requiring the lander to have either a nuclear source (either [[Nuclear Fission]] or [[RTG]]), or large [[Solar Power|solar panels]]. [[Basalt]] has specific heat capacity of 0.24 cal/g/degreeC or 0.84 KJ/kg degreeK. To heat 1kg of basalt by 700 degrees Celsius requires about 600 KJ. The highest concentration of He3 in the Maria regions is 0.01ppm in the regolith. This means that 600 KJ will yield 0.01 milligrams of He3. Using these numbers, a 600 Watt power source could produce 0.01 milligrams of He3 per second = 0.6 mg/minute = 36mg/hour = 864mg/day = 315 grams per year. Whether this business concept is viable depends on how quickly a group or entity wants to amortize their investment. If an arbitrary target is to produce 100 kg He3 in one year, then a power source of about 200 KW would be needed. That would give a revenue stream of $150M per year '''if''' the He3 market does not become flooded and the price drops.<br />
<br />
A [[Solar Power]] based system would be in darkness 50% of the time, so would need to operate at 400 KW. If it were on a lunar polar mountain top it might be in near continuous illumination. Assuming a best case scenario of 100% lighting, 10% photo voltaic efficiency and a fully steerable array, this would need an area of about 2,000 square meters, or about 45 meters on a square side. A simple non-PV solar reflector could be near 100% efficient, needing only 200 square meters or about 14 meters on a square side, or aperture. Setting up a 14 meter aperture mirror on the Moon would be a major engineering challenge, although it would not need to be particularly accurate as in the case of an astronomical telescope mirror.<br />
<br />
Open Questions:<br />
*How much would a 14 meter aperture mirror weigh?<br />
*Would a [[Nuclear Fission]] power plant have better performance per kilogram of lander payload?<br />
<br />
More thermal analysis needs to be done, as it may be possible to recycle the heat using some form of cogeneration. One possibility is to use the hot processed regolith to pre-heat the next incoming batch of raw dust, and thus reduce the number of solar joules needed. This could greatly reduce the size of solar array needed and/or significantly increase the system mass throughput.<br />
<br />
== Applications ==<br />
[[Image:Laser_DSC09088.JPG|thumb|right|px|An He-Ne laser]]<br />
*Medical Lung Imaging<br />
:According to Wikipedia: <br />
:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium_3<br />
:Details on this experimental application of He3: http://cerncourier.com/main/article/41/8/14<br />
<br />
{{expandsec}}<br />
<br />
==Related Articles==<br />
<br />
*[[Resource Values | Value of commodities (including He3)]]<br />
<br />
== External Links ==<br />
*[http://www.tunl.duke.edu/nucldata/HTML/A=3/03He_1987.shtml Nuclear data]<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
<br />
{{Cleanup}}<br />
[[Category:Gases]]<br />
[[Category:Noble Gases]]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=LUNAX&diff=14876LUNAX2009-01-06T18:46:07Z<p>Jarogers2001: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Org Stub}}<br />
<br />
<!--Note to self. PK has given permission for use of text/images from lunax.org. JR--><br />
<br />
The Lunar National Agriculture Experiment Corporation is a research and development effort focused on lunar agriculture and methods to make it both feasible and more productive. The focus of the project revolves around the reduction of agricultural power consumption using innovative lighting techniques, the conversion and [[ISRU|use of in-situ materials]] as an expandable growing medium, and ensuring the survival of agricultural plants during the two-week lunar night when energy for generating heat and light will be difficult to come by.<br />
<br />
LUNAX began as a spin-off effort of the [[Lunar Reclamation Society]] which serves as the Milwaukee, WI chapter of the [[NSS]] and [[Moon Society]]. LUNAX is currently active, although the website has not been updated in some time.<br />
<br />
==External Links==<br />
[http://lunax.org/ LUNAX Homepage - not recently updated]</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Team_FREDNET&diff=14859Talk:Team FREDNET2009-01-04T14:50:03Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Requests for information */ another link</p>
<hr />
<div>== Requests for information ==<br />
Hello, I am a volunteer of Team FREDNET coordinating communications with Lunarpedia. We regularly need information about the space and lunar environment to support development of our lunar mission, and would be very appreciative if Lunarpedia contributors are able to help us out. I'm adding requests for such information in the list below, in order of importance (most important at top). Not all requests for information are 'mission critical', but in any event it will help draw as complete a picture of the mission environment as possible.--[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 13:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* '''Radiation environment throughout mission'''. We need a thorough characterization of the radiation environment throughout a mission from the Earth to the Moon, including on Earth, in transit and on the Moon. It must be detailed enough to allow our engineers to design appropriate radiation shielding from the information. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 14:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
* '''Regolith composition at Apollo landing sites'''. The composition of regolith varies greatly with location on the Moon. We need to know the composition of the surface material at our landing site to calculate its frictional properties, which in turn will be used to design our rover. We have not selected a landing site yet, but it will most likely be one of the heritage Apollo landing sites. Hence, we need to know the exact geological composition of the lunar regolith at these sites. Since surface samples were taken by the Apollo astronauts, this information should be available from NASA in some form.--[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 13:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-sampcats.html Apollo Sample Catalogs]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/TM-2005-213610.pdf The Effects of Lunar Dust on EVA Systems During the Apollo Missions]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/TP-2006-213726.pdf The Apollo Experience Lessons Learned for Constellation Lunar Dust Management]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/19770020109_1977020109.pdf Lunar Sample Studies]<br />
::::[[JSC-1]] - ''Approximately 27,000 lb of JSC-1 simulant is currently available for distribution to qualified investigators. The only cost is for shipping. The material is stored at the Texas A&M Lunar Soil Simulant Laboratory. Investigators desiring a portion of this simulant should address their requests to Dr. Walter Boles, Department of Civil Engineering, Texas A&M University, College Station, TX 77843 (Telephone 409-845-2493, fax 409-862-2800).''<br />
::::[[Lunar Dust]]<br />
<br />
* '''Illuminance on the lunar surface'''. We are trying to figure out how (particulary, how brightly) objects on the lunar surface (not the lunar surface itself) are illuminated at various times of lunar day. We need this information to design visual systems (cameras) for our lander and rover. At least three sources of illuminance has to be taken into consideration: sunshine (light from the Sun), earthshine (sunlight reflected by Earth), and moonshine (sunlight reflected by the lunar surface itself). --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 14:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001https://lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Team_FREDNET&diff=14856Talk:Team FREDNET2009-01-04T09:15:01Z<p>Jarogers2001: /* Requests for information */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Requests for information ==<br />
Hello, I am a volunteer of Team FREDNET coordinating communications with Lunarpedia. We regularly need information about the space and lunar environment to support development of our lunar mission, and would be very appreciative if Lunarpedia contributors are able to help us out. I'm adding requests for such information in the list below, in order of importance (most important at top). Not all requests for information are 'mission critical', but in any event it will help draw as complete a picture of the mission environment as possible.--[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 13:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* '''Radiation enviroment throughout mission'''. We need a thorough characterization of the radiation environment throughout a mission from the Earth to the Moon, including on Earth, in transit and on the Moon. It must be detailed enough to allow our engineers to design appropriate radiation shielding from the information. --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 14:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
* '''Regolith composition at Apollo landing sites'''. The composition of regolith varies greatly with location on the Moon. We need to know the composition of the surface material at our landing site to calculate its frictional properties, which in turn will be used to design our rover. We have not selected a landing site yet, but it will most likely be one of the heritage Apollo landing sites. Hence, we need to know the exact geological composition of the lunar regolith at these sites. Since surface samples were taken by the Apollo astronauts, this information should be available from NASA in some form.--[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 13:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-sampcats.html Apollo Sample Catalogs]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/TM-2005-213610.pdf The Effects of Lunar Dust on EVA Systems<br />
During the Apollo Missions]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/TP-2006-213726.pdf The Apollo Experience Lessons Learned for<br />
Constellation Lunar Dust Management]<br />
::::[http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/19770020109_1977020109.pdf Lunar Sample Studies]<br />
::::[[JSC-1]] - ''Approximately 27,000 lb of JSC-1 simulant is currently available for distribution to qualified investigators. The only cost is for shipping. The material is stored at the Texas A&M Lunar Soil Simulant Laboratory. Investigators desiring a portion of this simulant should address their requests to Dr. Walter Boles, Department of Civil Engineering, Texas A&M University, College Station, TX 77843 (Telephone 409-845-2493, fax 409-862-2800).''<br />
<br />
* '''Illuminance on the lunar surface'''. We are trying to figure out how (particulary, how brightly) objects on the lunar surface (not the lunar surface itself) are illuminated at various times of lunar day. We need this information to design visual systems (cameras) for our lander and rover. At least three sources of illuminance has to be taken into consideration: sunshine (light from the Sun), earthshine (sunlight reflected by Earth), and moonshine (sunlight reflected by the lunar surface itself). --[[User:Anders Feder|Anders Feder]] 14:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)</div>Jarogers2001