Talk:Helium - Revision history

128.115.27.11: /* Direct Solar Heating */

2009-07-20T22:04:16Z

Direct Solar Heating

Jarogers2001: Talk:Helium3 moved to Talk:Helium: Articles Merged

2008-08-05T20:21:43Z

Talk:Helium3 moved to Talk:Helium: Articles Merged

Jarogers2001: /* Merge Request */

2008-08-05T11:35:15Z

Merge Request

Strangelv: Mediawiki needs a merge feature

2008-08-05T11:26:09Z

Mediawiki needs a merge feature

Jarogers2001: /* Volatiles */ Merge Request - Any objections?

2008-08-04T18:25:06Z

Volatiles: Merge Request - Any objections?

Jarogers2001: /* Volatiles */

2008-08-04T16:38:52Z

Volatiles

T.Neo at 16:23, 4 August 2008

2008-08-04T16:23:15Z

Jarogers2001: /* Direct Solar Heating */

2008-08-03T17:20:25Z

Direct Solar Heating

T.Neo at 15:53, 3 August 2008

2008-08-03T15:53:59Z

Jarogers2001: /* Direct Solar Heating */

2008-08-02T08:36:48Z

Direct Solar Heating

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:04, 20 July 2009
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	Other volatiles produced can be found on the [[Volatiles]] article. - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 17:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)		Other volatiles produced can be found on the [[Volatiles]] article. - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 17:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
		+
		+
		+	===Direct Solar vs RTGs===
		+
		+	Echo 2 was a 0.0127mm thick 41.1 meter diameter spherical mylar balloon launched in 1964. The total weight of the system was 256kg and included the inflation system and some solar panels:
		+
		+	http://msl.jpl.nasa.gov/QuickLooks/echoQL.html
		+
		+	If a parabolic version of Echo 2 were half silvered this size of reflector would concentrate more than a 1.5 megawatt of sunlight if used outside of the earth’s atmosphere. Optimized cylindrical solar concentrators designed for cooking basalt could weigh less than this. Solar tracking is an easier problem on the moon since the solar cycle is 28 earth days long. The distillation system and material handling would be the heaviest part of any He3 lunar activity.
		+
		+	The fission based RTG system used on Cassini weighed 56kg and produced about 900 watts of electricity from about 13,000 Watts of heat.
		+
		+	http://www.space4peace.org/ianus/npsm2.htm

	==Volatiles==		==Volatiles==

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:35, 5 August 2008
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	:I really with MediaWiki had a merge feature. It's not a legal issue with us, just a nuisance. It's arguable that Wikipedia violates its own licence every time it does a merge that loses contributor information, though, which is every time... I've been pondering the workload needed to export and import a combined article. Needs a test... -- [[User:Strangelv\|Strangelv]] 11:26, 5 August 2008 (UTC)		:I really with MediaWiki had a merge feature. It's not a legal issue with us, just a nuisance. It's arguable that Wikipedia violates its own licence every time it does a merge that loses contributor information, though, which is every time... I've been pondering the workload needed to export and import a combined article. Needs a test... -- [[User:Strangelv\|Strangelv]] 11:26, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
		+
		+
		+	::If you want to try some kind of merger test, I recommending exporting the two articles, merging them, then importing them under a test name to avoid problems. What I would do is to simply copy your work and mine from Helium, move the Helium3 article to that location, then add our information at the top and proceed with cleanup/editing. I would hope to be able to do this within a week of featuring [[Volatiles]] so that Helium can then be featured on the front page. All contributor information from this article would be moved to that location. - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 11:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:26, 5 August 2008
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	I would like to merge this article with [[Helium]] to centralize data and avoid problems with isotope nomenclature. Any objections? - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 18:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)		I would like to merge this article with [[Helium]] to centralize data and avoid problems with isotope nomenclature. Any objections? - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 18:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
		+
		+	:I really with MediaWiki had a merge feature. It's not a legal issue with us, just a nuisance. It's arguable that Wikipedia violates its own licence every time it does a merge that loses contributor information, though, which is every time... I've been pondering the workload needed to export and import a combined article. Needs a test... -- [[User:Strangelv\|Strangelv]] 11:26, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:25, 4 August 2008
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	You are absolutely correct in the thought that techniques learned on the moon will be useful for asteroid mining. The same weathering processes responsible for the abrasive lunar regolith are also responsible for the surface regolith layer of asteroides. It would also be easier to launch an asteroid mining device from the lower gravity well of the moon than to launch it from earth. "I thought you had to get beyond the frost line to get to large amounts of water." So did I. The amount of He3 available on bodies will need to be determined on a case by case basis due to changing asteroid orbits, etc. The farther away from the sun you get, the less He3 you will receive as the solar wind spreads out in the same way as sunlight.. - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 16:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)		You are absolutely correct in the thought that techniques learned on the moon will be useful for asteroid mining. The same weathering processes responsible for the abrasive lunar regolith are also responsible for the surface regolith layer of asteroides. It would also be easier to launch an asteroid mining device from the lower gravity well of the moon than to launch it from earth. "I thought you had to get beyond the frost line to get to large amounts of water." So did I. The amount of He3 available on bodies will need to be determined on a case by case basis due to changing asteroid orbits, etc. The farther away from the sun you get, the less He3 you will receive as the solar wind spreads out in the same way as sunlight.. - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 16:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
		+
		+	==Merge Request==
		+
		+	I would like to merge this article with [[Helium]] to centralize data and avoid problems with isotope nomenclature. Any objections? - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 18:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:38, 4 August 2008
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	So, if some asteroids (the ones that are not extinct comets) are similar in composition to the lunar regolith, could techniques developed on the moon be used for asteroid mining? Could the moon be the place to build asteroid mining devices? And water in NEOs might be a lifesaver. I thought you had to get beyond the frost line to get to large amounts of water. Is there any advantage of mining He3 from asteroids instead of the Moon? Do the Martian moons hold large He3 reserves? [[User:T.Neo\|T.Neo]] 16:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)		So, if some asteroids (the ones that are not extinct comets) are similar in composition to the lunar regolith, could techniques developed on the moon be used for asteroid mining? Could the moon be the place to build asteroid mining devices? And water in NEOs might be a lifesaver. I thought you had to get beyond the frost line to get to large amounts of water. Is there any advantage of mining He3 from asteroids instead of the Moon? Do the Martian moons hold large He3 reserves? [[User:T.Neo\|T.Neo]] 16:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
		+
		+	You are absolutely correct in the thought that techniques learned on the moon will be useful for asteroid mining. The same weathering processes responsible for the abrasive lunar regolith are also responsible for the surface regolith layer of asteroides. It would also be easier to launch an asteroid mining device from the lower gravity well of the moon than to launch it from earth. "I thought you had to get beyond the frost line to get to large amounts of water." So did I. The amount of He3 available on bodies will need to be determined on a case by case basis due to changing asteroid orbits, etc. The farther away from the sun you get, the less He3 you will receive as the solar wind spreads out in the same way as sunlight.. - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 16:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:23, 4 August 2008
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	The lack of water on the moon is due (we believe) to the way that it formed. A very large collision in which most of its mass was either converted to plasma, vaporized, melted, or shattered and was sprayed out into space where accretion took place sans volatiles. On the other hand, NEOs, Phobos, and Deimos are asteroids which contain hydrous minerals within their internal structure. Like the moon, they are also subject to the same space weathering that will embed helium 3 and other volatiles into their surface regolith. The really interesting part is that recent discoveries (I don't remember where I read them offhand) have begun to blur the line between cometary bodies and asteroids, suggesting that many asteroids may be dead cometary cores which may contain internal ice deposits insulated by the highly refractory surface regolith. - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 17:20, 3 August 2008 (UTC)		The lack of water on the moon is due (we believe) to the way that it formed. A very large collision in which most of its mass was either converted to plasma, vaporized, melted, or shattered and was sprayed out into space where accretion took place sans volatiles. On the other hand, NEOs, Phobos, and Deimos are asteroids which contain hydrous minerals within their internal structure. Like the moon, they are also subject to the same space weathering that will embed helium 3 and other volatiles into their surface regolith. The really interesting part is that recent discoveries (I don't remember where I read them offhand) have begun to blur the line between cometary bodies and asteroids, suggesting that many asteroids may be dead cometary cores which may contain internal ice deposits insulated by the highly refractory surface regolith. - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 17:20, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
		+
		+	So, if some asteroids (the ones that are not extinct comets) are similar in composition to the lunar regolith, could techniques developed on the moon be used for asteroid mining? Could the moon be the place to build asteroid mining devices? And water in NEOs might be a lifesaver. I thought you had to get beyond the frost line to get to large amounts of water. Is there any advantage of mining He3 from asteroids instead of the Moon? Do the Martian moons hold large He3 reserves? [[User:T.Neo\|T.Neo]] 16:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

@@ Line 51: / Line 51: @@
 Other volatiles produced can be found on the [[Volatiles]] article. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 17:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 I see in the volatiles article that hydrogen is the most bundant volatile on the Moon. Is this in regoltih alone or mostly in ice at the poles? If so, is it available in the regolith to be viable for use as rocket fuel? [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 13:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
@@ Line 61: / Line 63: @@
 I hope that there is water on the moons of Mars, because it will be useful as propellant for spacecraft. NEOs, however, I am not too sure about. Wouldn't millions of years under the huge spotlight sun strip them of their volatiles as has happened to the Moon? This lack of "fuel" will lead to some interesting rockets and propellants, etc. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 15:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:53, 3 August 2008
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	It could be shipped from earth at first, but eventually it could be shipped from NEOs and the moons of Mars. H2 is much lighter than H20 due to the fact that Oxygen is 8/9ths of the mass of each water molecule. The first H2 would need to be shipped to the moon, but it could also be recycled, scavenged from regolith, or harvested from the poles. However, whether I think it's a good long term idea or not, polar hydrogen will likely be used as rocket fuel in the beginning. It works in the short term. - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 08:36, 2 August 2008 (UTC)		It could be shipped from earth at first, but eventually it could be shipped from NEOs and the moons of Mars. H2 is much lighter than H20 due to the fact that Oxygen is 8/9ths of the mass of each water molecule. The first H2 would need to be shipped to the moon, but it could also be recycled, scavenged from regolith, or harvested from the poles. However, whether I think it's a good long term idea or not, polar hydrogen will likely be used as rocket fuel in the beginning. It works in the short term. - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 08:36, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
		+
		+	I hope that there is water on the moons of Mars, because it will be useful as propellant for spacecraft. NEOs, however, I am not too sure about. Wouldn't millions of years under the huge spotlight sun strip them of their volatiles as has happened to the Moon? This lack of "fuel" will lead to some interesting rockets and propellants, etc. [[User:T.Neo\|T.Neo]] 15:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:36, 2 August 2008
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	So if you ship O2 to LEO to use as propellant, where does the fuel come from? Is it shipped from Earth? How do you get hold of H2 or any other fuel on the Moon? [[User:T.Neo\|T.Neo]] 08:21, 2 August 2008 (UTC)		So if you ship O2 to LEO to use as propellant, where does the fuel come from? Is it shipped from Earth? How do you get hold of H2 or any other fuel on the Moon? [[User:T.Neo\|T.Neo]] 08:21, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
		+
		+	It could be shipped from earth at first, but eventually it could be shipped from NEOs and the moons of Mars. H2 is much lighter than H20 due to the fact that Oxygen is 8/9ths of the mass of each water molecule. The first H2 would need to be shipped to the moon, but it could also be recycled, scavenged from regolith, or harvested from the poles. However, whether I think it's a good long term idea or not, polar hydrogen will likely be used as rocket fuel in the beginning. It works in the short term. - [[User:Jarogers2001\|Jarogers2001]] 08:36, 2 August 2008 (UTC)