Talk:Lunar Bill of Rights - Revision history

Farred: Undo revision 92471 by 37.113.57.34 (talk) remove vandalism

2016-08-10T09:48:55Z

Undo revision 92471 by 37.113.57.34 (talk) remove vandalism

37.113.57.34: /* viagrdsfdfrt */ new section

2015-11-13T22:48:02Z

viagrdsfdfrt: new section

Farred: dummy edit to remove spam

2014-07-03T20:19:42Z

dummy edit to remove spam

Farred: Reverted edits by 46.118.121.7 (talk) to last revision by 46.118.117.157

2014-07-03T19:47:01Z

Reverted edits by 46.118.121.7 (talk) to last revision by 46.118.117.157

46.118.121.7: /* OzxVRPCz */ new section

2014-07-03T18:22:14Z

OzxVRPCz: new section

46.118.121.7: /* SimyvCDX */ new section

2014-07-03T17:55:23Z

SimyvCDX: new section

46.118.117.157: /* YbIheDNUNZIKPXpwLacxDopPIKviuVtiHLCImAFiMzorrc */ new section

2014-07-03T14:42:39Z

YbIheDNUNZIKPXpwLacxDopPIKviuVtiHLCImAFiMzorrc: new section

Farred: add link

2013-09-06T01:09:08Z

add link

Farred: adding section header as link target

2013-09-06T00:14:46Z

adding section header as link target

Strangelv: /* Right to bear and keep arms */

2012-06-03T11:09:18Z

Right to bear and keep arms

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:48, 10 August 2016
Line 124:		Line 124:
	Do you think that Syria spying on dissidents?		Do you think that Syria spying on dissidents?
	:I suppose you are indicating that your name is John Reyes. That is not quite the customary way of editing Lunarpedia. A section title should describe the subtopic of the section of a talk page, and the name or nickname of the contributor should be at the end of the contribution. While it seems a good guess to me that Syria spies on dissidents, I do not know what that has to do with the moon, which is the general topic for this website. My guess is that there is little likelihood that Syria has a space program of any kind, much less a lunar colonization plan. [[User:Farred\|Farred]] 19:21, 17 December 2011 (UTC)		:I suppose you are indicating that your name is John Reyes. That is not quite the customary way of editing Lunarpedia. A section title should describe the subtopic of the section of a talk page, and the name or nickname of the contributor should be at the end of the contribution. While it seems a good guess to me that Syria spies on dissidents, I do not know what that has to do with the moon, which is the general topic for this website. My guess is that there is little likelihood that Syria has a space program of any kind, much less a lunar colonization plan. [[User:Farred\|Farred]] 19:21, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
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← Older revision		Revision as of 22:48, 13 November 2015
Line 124:		Line 124:
	Do you think that Syria spying on dissidents?		Do you think that Syria spying on dissidents?
	:I suppose you are indicating that your name is John Reyes. That is not quite the customary way of editing Lunarpedia. A section title should describe the subtopic of the section of a talk page, and the name or nickname of the contributor should be at the end of the contribution. While it seems a good guess to me that Syria spies on dissidents, I do not know what that has to do with the moon, which is the general topic for this website. My guess is that there is little likelihood that Syria has a space program of any kind, much less a lunar colonization plan. [[User:Farred\|Farred]] 19:21, 17 December 2011 (UTC)		:I suppose you are indicating that your name is John Reyes. That is not quite the customary way of editing Lunarpedia. A section title should describe the subtopic of the section of a talk page, and the name or nickname of the contributor should be at the end of the contribution. While it seems a good guess to me that Syria spies on dissidents, I do not know what that has to do with the moon, which is the general topic for this website. My guess is that there is little likelihood that Syria has a space program of any kind, much less a lunar colonization plan. [[User:Farred\|Farred]] 19:21, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
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@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 --[[User:Jriley|Jriley]] 07:58, 17 March 2007 (PDT)
 ==Right to bear and keep arms==
 I know it will :-) Hehe!
@@ Line 124: / Line 124: @@
 Do you think that Syria spying on dissidents?
 :I suppose you are indicating that your name is John Reyes.  That is not quite the customary way of editing Lunarpedia.  A section title should describe the subtopic of the section of a talk page, and the name or nickname of the contributor should be at the end of the contribution.  While it seems a good guess to me that Syria spies on dissidents, I do not know what that has to do with the moon, which is the general topic for this website.  My guess is that there is little likelihood that Syria has a space program of any kind, much less a lunar colonization plan.  [[User:Farred|Farred]] 19:21, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:47, 3 July 2014
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← Older revision		Revision as of 18:22, 3 July 2014
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← Older revision		Revision as of 14:42, 3 July 2014
Line 124:		Line 124:
	Do you think that Syria spying on dissidents?		Do you think that Syria spying on dissidents?
	:I suppose you are indicating that your name is John Reyes. That is not quite the customary way of editing Lunarpedia. A section title should describe the subtopic of the section of a talk page, and the name or nickname of the contributor should be at the end of the contribution. While it seems a good guess to me that Syria spies on dissidents, I do not know what that has to do with the moon, which is the general topic for this website. My guess is that there is little likelihood that Syria has a space program of any kind, much less a lunar colonization plan. [[User:Farred\|Farred]] 19:21, 17 December 2011 (UTC)		:I suppose you are indicating that your name is John Reyes. That is not quite the customary way of editing Lunarpedia. A section title should describe the subtopic of the section of a talk page, and the name or nickname of the contributor should be at the end of the contribution. While it seems a good guess to me that Syria spies on dissidents, I do not know what that has to do with the moon, which is the general topic for this website. My guess is that there is little likelihood that Syria has a space program of any kind, much less a lunar colonization plan. [[User:Farred\|Farred]] 19:21, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
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@@ Line 101: / Line 101: @@
 :On Earth it is said that my right to swing my arm ends where my neighbor's nose begins.  On Luna, rights to do as one pleases must take into account the need to demonstrate to Earth that Luna is indeed harmless.  Earth's concerns will unavoidably dominate space colony concerns for very many years unless an interstellar planetoid the size of Vesta smashes into Earth without warning and leaves space colonies thereafter completely on their own. [[User:Farred|Farred]] 20:53, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
-::After polishing up my crystal ball and gazing intently at a few possible futures, I find that in about four hundred years there will be high volume low cost access to orbit from Earth.  I will add a link to an article about that once I have written it.  Heavy industry will have mostly moved off Earth and strategic military force as well.  Political power and police forces will remain on the garden planet that Earth will become.  At this time a violent change in the leadership of the military forces in space will be possible.  Earth itself will not be targeted by weapons.  Earth will be seen as the prize to be taken over by the victors, who will then take over political rule from Earth.  As to why military forces would be removed from Earth, they would be sitting ducks if they remained on Earth.  Once military questions are resolved in space, all left on Earth will either shout, "The king is dead.  Long live the king." or they will congratulate the king at thwarting treason.  (King is metaphorically government.)  Whether there will be one or many governments for humanity in that distant future will depend upon 1> how strongly people gravitate to differing views of what constitutes the least evil form of government 2> how strongly people hold various incompatible cultural beliefs 3> how strongly people are affected by "We are good.  They are bad." bias which is sometimes the focus of government propaganda.  The focus of my crystal ball is poor in some areas.  Just take my word for this.  You would not want to be living in space during the time of a total space war.  The governmental arrangement that I would think best would be a multi cultural multi economic system of governments that have arrangements for peacefully resolving disagreements.  [[User:Farred|Farred]] 17:19, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
+::After polishing up my crystal ball and gazing intently at a few possible futures, I find that in about four hundred years there will be [[Eddy Current Brake to Orbit|high volume low cost access to orbit]] from Earth.  I will add a link to an article about that once I have written it.  Heavy industry will have mostly moved off Earth and strategic military force as well.  Political power and police forces will remain on the garden planet that Earth will become.  At this time a violent change in the leadership of the military forces in space will be possible.  Earth itself will not be targeted by weapons.  Earth will be seen as the prize to be taken over by the victors, who will then take over political rule from Earth.  As to why military forces would be removed from Earth, they would be sitting ducks if they remained on Earth.  Once military questions are resolved in space, all left on Earth will either shout, "The king is dead.  Long live the king." or they will congratulate the king at thwarting treason.  (King is metaphorically government.)  Whether there will be one or many governments for humanity in that distant future will depend upon 1> how strongly people gravitate to differing views of what constitutes the least evil form of government 2> how strongly people hold various incompatible cultural beliefs 3> how strongly people are affected by "We are good.  They are bad." bias which is sometimes the focus of government propaganda.  The focus of my crystal ball is poor in some areas.  Just take my word for this.  You would not want to be living in space during the time of a total space war.  The governmental arrangement that I would think best would be a multi cultural multi economic system of governments that have arrangements for peacefully resolving disagreements.  [[User:Farred|Farred]] 17:19, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 == Sovereignty ==

@@ Line 63: / Line 63: @@
 ::The cost of setting up a colony on Luna that pays its own way will be enormous.  A colony or colonies will be on Luna by the agreement of all major industrial nations on Earth, or there will be no colony.  Neither the United States nor Russia nor China nor the European Union will tolerate a hostile colony on Luna because such a colony could gain military domination of the whole Earth from space.  The extreme vulnerability of such a colony during the long developmental period gives any of those entities the power to unilaterally destroy it before it becomes a problem. We need to keep the agreement on a nonmilitary moon and establish the monitoring system to ensure compliance. [[User:Farred|Farred]] 07:50, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 :::In order to communicate more clearly the possibility of military domination of Earth from the moon and avoid suggesting that any particular nation would want to do this, I introduce a simpleminded bit of science fiction in which two new nations are added to those on Earth.  I replace the Bahamas with the island nation of Adamantia, located in the North Atlantic and about the size of England and France combined.  I place Muland in the South Pacific half way between New Zeeland and Easter Island and about half the size of Libya.  Both of these countries stayed neutral during most of World War II.  Adamantia declared war on both Germany and Japan in August of 1944 with Muland following suit in September of 1944.
 :::Having established these nations in Geography and History, I ignore most of history as irrelevant to the story and only describe Adamantia's keen interest in space exploration.  It failed to acquire any German rocket scientists during WW II, but managed to reach Luna anyway sending a robot probe that landed in August of 1975.  Making great efforts, Adamantia sent 3 or 4 robot missions to Luna every year and shared with the world photographs of magnificent desolation in great detail including photographs of abandoned robot probes which seemed to fail rather regularly.  The United states, the Soviet Union, and Western European countries decided to ignore Adamantia's wasteful obsession and concentrated on satellites in Earth orbit to the extent that they had any interest in outer space at all.  This continued until May of 2027 when United States Strategic Air Command took note of radar echoes indicating spacecraft appearing from behind the Moon.

@@ Line 46: / Line 46: @@
 :::Certainly, we do not know... It can also happen that Moon's culture might turn even more violent than Earth's... All we can do is just to steer their society into a non violent one... Education will play a huge part in the future of Moon Citizen's... If the first settlers are non violent and have a non-gun background they could slow the process of human nature... --[[User:Jotagiraldez|Jose Giraldez]] 21:57, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 ::::I think we can guess that a lunar settlement will be in sociological ways similar to Antarctic outposts.  I do not have personal knowledge that no one in an Antarctic outpost ever wanted to commit a crime with a gun, but what I have read leads me to guess that that is true for the United Sates' outposts.  There is a potential for some people to be dissatisfied with enforced close association with some of their comrads, but I guess that only results in some people not signing up for any repeat tour.  We did not send up any guns with the Apollo astronauts.  If industrialization does take hold, we might avoid the need for guns for a long time.  There could be a policy that any pregnant settler and the father get to use their return ticket early, long before or soon after the child is born.  Removing family concerns from the moon and having reasonably short tours of duty in general would eliminate some of the routes to violent crime.  However, if a colony is prosperous, I expect there will eventually be long term residents, children and general stores.  I am willing to hope for a gun free settlement, but I just do not know what would happen that far in the future. - [[User:Farred|Farred]] 01:23, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 ==Lunar citizens versus Flags of Convenience==