Not talking about important problems does not make them go away. It only saves the problems for a later day. We need free and open discussions of all aspects of the human condition to understand how we can live in space.
Tom Riley --Jriley 06:16, 4 March 2007 (PST)
We do need to work with our students and support them in a safe place. Perhaps the adult material belongs in another wiki altogether.
Tom Riley --Jriley 06:17, 4 March 2007 (PST)
Personally, I am liberally minded, however, there is extreme legal liability. Posting obscene material can get you (or others) prosecuted in some jurisdictions. The definition of what is "obscene" varies widely in different jurisdictions. This wiki can be accessed by anybody anywhere in the world, so could run afoul of local regulations and laws. Because of such concerns we have deleted items which look to be at risk of violating obscentiy laws in ANY jurisdiction. The risk to too great, e.g. a schoolteacher in USA is currently facing a 40 year jail term for inadvertently exposing students to obscenity.
If a person is convicted as a "sex offender" this stays with you for the rest of your life and becomes a public record.
This wiki is completely open and we do not have any way of restricting access to adults only at this time. This might be an enhancement which might be added in the future, talk to MikeD about that.Charles F. Radley 06:37, 4 March 2007 (PST)
- Sorry, but mediawiki is not designed to handle group restrictions and as such can only block editing and direct viewing, content can still be found with search engines. The only way to really restrict access would be completely counter to the aims of a wiki in general and pointless in the extreme. -- Mdelaney 18:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
The problem then is to arrive at a concensis on rules that clearly define what is not obscene. If we cannot then we are stuck only discussing space settlement at a very simplistic level. We will bore people to tears and in the end fail to granish support.
--Jriley 14:24, 5 March 2007 (PST)
- I am sorry I simply disagree with the above assertion. There is a huge amount to discuss about lunar development, very little of it involves adult themes. Avoiding this area will have no negative effect on the value of the discussions.Charles F. Radley 14:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
- I concur wholeheartedly with Charles on this matter. -- Mdelaney 18:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Take a look at this web link on legal disclaimers:
We probably needed similar legal disclaimers on Lunarpedia.
Stories in a Wiki
I'm concerned that a wiki is a less than optimal location for fiction, regardless of content, unless the fiction is being developed in a cooperative fashion on the wiki (in which case a wiki may indeed be optimal).
I am also unsure of the value of releasing stories to the public domain as a general policy.
If we decide to go ahead, I would suggest that we should probably create a namespace specifically for fictional works, possibly locking completed works and also tagging each story individually for its usage status (all rights reserved on one end to public domain on the other). -- Strangelv 07:03, 4 March 2007 (PST)
I certainly intend the stories here to be a cooperative effort. I feel it was necessary to seed the idea with a few examples to get it started. People hate trying to stare down a blank page.
The commercial value of these stories is exactly zero. I know because I had the best of them rejected by several publications.
Wikipedia claims that they won the rights to everything on their site. I do not doubt it but I will not believe it until their claim is tested in a court of law. If The Moon Society wants to claim rights to everything I have posted on Lunarpedia, I would be happy to add their copyright claim myself.
There are plenty of good writers out there who can turn out a solid short story but who cannot make it as a professional writer. Those are the people I am looking for. Professional writers should definitely not post anything on a Wiki, unless they are doing as a give away to build a following.
--Jriley 14:36, 5 March 2007 (PST)
Our problem is how to allow legitimate consideration of real human needs, actions, and consequences, while blocking tasteless, exploitive material.
We need to allow "Streetcar Named Desire", while blocking both "South Park" and "Deadwood". --Jriley 12:12, 7 March 2007 (PST)
Well Actually I do not see it that way at all. I am only interested in avoiding legal liability, taste is a different matter which should be unregulated. So "Southpark" and "Deadwood" are fine. Although I do not see how either of those shows would be relevant to Lunarpedia. Interesting factoid, did you see/hear Buzz Aldrin's guest appearance and voiceover on "The Simpsons" some years back?Charles F. Radley 20:34, 7 March 2007 (PST)
Ok, I'm going to jump in here.
As the person who paid for the domain name, and paid for the server, out of his own pocket with a credit card registered in his name I have a vested interest in not being sued or arrested and/or extradited. If anyone posts sexually "explicit" material on this wiki, I will get very annoyed and remove it. If they do it twice, I'll ban them.
This does not mean that I wont allow mature scientific discussion on matters relating to human sexuality on the moon, I for one can see how low gravity might have an effect, just don't venture towards being overly descriptive.
I'm not a prude, I have watched porn and I've even known some people in the porn business. But I'm currently living in Ireland where the laws are perhaps a little stricter than in parts of the US. Britain is actually even stricter again.
Both the Moon Society Leadership Council and the Thursday night NSS chat group were of the opinion that we should tread carefully on this matter and the general consensus, close to majority in fact, was to disallow sexually explicit material. So, disallowed it is.
It's unfortunate really, I expect some of it would be very funny with people bouncing off ceilings and all :-)
MikeD 13:24, 10 Mar 2007 (GMT)
This is a Really Bad Idea. I can't imagine a situation that would justify anything in the Lunarpedia that would require an adult content warning. Even discussing the possibly unique aspects of sexual activities in zero g would be a matter of open speculation with no basis for conclusions.
At the same time, the presence of just one such article in the Lunarpedia would be an embarrassment to all contributors.
- Part of being too sidetracked to move the fiction and fiction related content to scientificion.org which was the decision reached about the fiction category is that the content to be moved is mostly not yet even tagged to be moved.
- please pardon the sawdust and nails strewn about. It is on the list of things to do. -- Strangelv 17:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Why addult themes? To communicat with adult people.
The question is really whether Lunarpedia wants to be active or passive on returning to the Moon.
We have tried passive for most of the 40 odd years since Apollo and got nowhere.
If we want to actively make returning to the Moon happen in our lifetimes, we are going to have to do some hard work. I have provided a lot of technical information on how could be done in Show Stoppers and the Purposes List. I say the task is do able.
One group we must reach are science fiction fans. If we cannot even reach them, we do not stand a chance. To reach them we must feed them what they eat. Right now that means generating stories about believable people in situations that could happen and that are interesting to think about. Juvenile fiction will not do. We must help SF fans to envision their personal success on the Moon, and by extension human success on the Moon.
This does not mean we have to embrace being crude, but it does mean we must deal with human sexuality honestly.
I have one example of such a story, I can send out by e-mail if anyone is interested.
--188.8.131.52 23:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
- This is no longer really a question about this being in Lunarpedia, as it was decided months ago to create Scientifiction.org as the location. It is just that the great relocation of content from Lunarpedia to Scientifiction (and the still unnamed general space wiki, ExoDictionary, and possibly Marspedia as well) is a pending item in the queue of things to do with several items in front of it.
- Q: Where do we draw the line on content at Scientifiction.org and even more importantly, what are its objectives? Is it to incubate the creation of content, or is it a repository of content? PG-13 and stronger content could be useful with the latter, but could hamper the former, as it it could be very useful to be a place where younger audiences can be permitted, as we need them taking up the torch even more than we need it picked up by people already old enough to vote. After months of consideration I'm thinking in terms of soft PG, but we really need a list of guidelines and firm rules for adult natured content on scientifiction.org, which is where this talk page will eventually be located. -- Strangelv 00:45, 1 May 2007 (UTC)